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Thread: Murder or Self-Defense if Officer Is Killed in Raid? (No-Knock Raid Thread)

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by docsherm View Post
    http://www.wesh.com/article/judge-ru...n-2012/4436748

    It is Pure BS and the fact that a judge threw out the case because Scott had a firearm.

    "By any measure this is a tragic case. The court sympathizes with the plantiffs' loss. Andrew Scott made a fateful decision that night: he chose to answer his door with a gun in his hand. That changed everything. That is the one thing that - more than anything else - led to this tragedy."


    That judge needs some retraining on the law.
    I'm SOOOOO sure if the Alcoholic Judge heard a banging at his door and cursing at late o' clock at night, he'd mosey to the door in a nightshirt, night cap, and holding a candle in a candle holder going "Oh dearest me, gentlemen. How may I help you this late evening? Care for a beverage and fiddle faddle?"

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    I'm SOOOOO sure if the Alcoholic Judge heard a banging at his door and cursing at late o' clock at night, he'd mosey to the door in a nightshirt, night cap, and holding a candle in a candle holder going "Oh dearest me, gentlemen. How may I help you this late evening? Care for a beverage and fiddle faddle?"
    I am sure you are 100% correct..........
    In no way do I make any money from anyone related to the firearms industry.


    "I have never heard anyone say after a firefight that I wish that I had not taken so much ammo.", ME

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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by docsherm View Post
    http://www.wesh.com/article/judge-ru...n-2012/4436748

    It is Pure BS and the fact that a judge threw out the case because Scott had a firearm.

    "By any measure this is a tragic case. The court sympathizes with the plantiffs' loss. Andrew Scott made a fateful decision that night: he chose to answer his door with a gun in his hand. That changed everything. That is the one thing that - more than anything else - led to this tragedy."


    That judge needs some retraining on the law.
    Especially since it was a warrantless "knock and talk", and a neighbor had informed the police that the apartment they were banging on did not own the motorcycle.

    I hope this goes to appeal. And in this particular case I do not believe the "reasonable officer" defense should apply.

    I can tell you in our area a reasonable officer would expect to be met by an armed homeowner in the middle of the night unless they had flashing lights and made it very clear that it was police.

    In which case it would have been the home owner's fault if he answered the door knowing it was the police with a pistol in his hand.

    I've had police show up in the wee hours of the morning. I walked out to meet them and it turns out it was a taxi driver had called in a fare that said he was going in my house to get some money but actually disappeared.

    When talking to one officer, another one walked up and proceeded to walk in my open back door. Doing the normal flashlight in one hand, hand on his pistol with the other hand.

    I asked him to not enter as there was no reason to enter my home as we did not have a teenage son, etcetera.

    The other officer told him it was okay, and he turned around.

    It turned out okay, but it made me read up on exigent circumstances, Etc as the last thing I want is nervous armed officers walking through my home that had small children in the wee hours of the morning.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Damage View Post
    Ya this will get locked up soon...

    So before that happens I want to get my experience into the mix.


    I was on the receiving end of a no-knock...

    They got the wrong house tried to trump up charges, and even tried to do some "this looks like drugs" stuff. I was held at gun point, thrown to the ground etc...

    My home at the time was totally wired with hidden cameras and Battery backup at the time. I also do an annual lifestyle poly...

    The DA found out about my background knew they did not have a case and tried to force me to sign a plea to drop charges that would also state nothing was their fault.

    I rejected it, went to court go the case thrown. Then sued, and got a nice settlement.

    No Knocks have NO place with local law enforcement, I can see federal needing it. But locals using it is ****ing stupid.
    Good for you, brother!

    I also think a man's domicile is his castle and should be respected as such. The nation is slipping into a Police State and few realize it - including the police.


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  5. #165
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    When responding to bell or knock, I've always go to the door carrying a handgun but make great effort that it's observed by the caller. For me that's easy, because I seldom open my door if I don't know the caller. I'm carefully paranoid, sorta.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by platoonDaddy View Post
    Don’t know anything about the web site, but if accurate, very scary.

    Death At Your Door: Knock-And-Talk Police Tactics Rip A Hole In The Constitution

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...e-constitution
    No law says you have to answer your door and "open up".

    If you see a uniformed LEO banging and yelling at your door at 0' dark-thirty, simply call 911 and ask the dispatcher if they have a unit at your residence as you suspect it might be someone impersonating an officer. That way you have time to put away your suppressed SBR with NVDs before you open your door to talk to the LEO if legit.

    Similar case in Forth Worth a couple of years ago where to two rookies responded to the wrong house on a burglary call and killed the home owner . . .


    Fort Worth Homeowner Shot Seven Times by Police: Autopsy Report

    Kathy Waller, the victim's wife, told NBC 5 her husband grabbed a .38-caliber pistol and went outside when they noticed bright lights outside their bedroom window. While still in the bedroom, she heard yelling at about the same time as she heard gunshots, she said.

    Earlier in October, one of the rookie officers involved in the shooting as fired. Officer Benjamin Hanlon was terminated for lying on a police report about finding drugs on a man during an August traffic stop not related to the Waller shooting.
    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/For...230134291.html
    Last edited by Moose-Knuckle; 04-01-17 at 04:33.
    "In a nut shell, if it ever goes to Civil War, I'm afraid I'll be in the middle 70%, shooting at both sides" — 26 Inf


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  7. #167
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    Kathy Waller, the victim's wife, told NBC 5 her husband grabbed a .38-caliber pistol and went outside when they noticed bright lights outside their bedroom window. While still in the bedroom, she heard yelling at about the same time as she heard gunshots, she said.

    Earlier in October, one of the rookie officers involved in the shooting as fired. Officer Benjamin Hanlon was terminated for lying on a police report about finding drugs on a man during an August traffic stop not related to the Waller shooting.
    I had to train my wife on this point. What happens outside is irrelevant when compared to our physical safety. Unless they're throwing Molotov cocktails at the house, we're staying inside and not opening anything. Even if police with lights and sirens are banging on my door demanding to be let in, no can do without a warrant. They can effectively and SAFELY speak with me through the door to sort out what THEIR issue is. Those are my rules on my property and they're just going to have to accept that, because I don't owe them anything.
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  8. #168
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    In all but extremis situations, not a fan of no knock warrants. The barrier to get one should be far greater. Puts civilians and LE in unnecessary risk. They are overused and abused and that's not including entering the wrong location.
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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    I had to train my wife on this point. What happens outside is irrelevant when compared to our physical safety. Unless they're throwing Molotov cocktails at the house, we're staying inside and not opening anything. Even if police with lights and sirens are banging on my door demanding to be let in, no can do without a warrant. They can effectively and SAFELY speak with me through the door to sort out what THEIR issue is. Those are my rules on my property and they're just going to have to accept that, because I don't owe them anything.
    I'm with you there.

    No need to go outside when I can look out a window, my wide view security door viewer, etc.

    Now if home invaders gains entry (after defeating multiple layers of security) then it's weapons free time.
    "In a nut shell, if it ever goes to Civil War, I'm afraid I'll be in the middle 70%, shooting at both sides" — 26 Inf


    "We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them." — CNN's Don Lemon 10/30/18

  10. #170
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    US Marshals?



    Quote Originally Posted by http://archive.commercialappeal.com/news/crime/us-marshals-defend-arrest-after-video-surfaces-20fda49d-a792-7fc1-e053-0100007f6b6d-330162081.html
    When asked if the marshal with the shotgun followed proper procedures, Bruce said: "The short answer is yes. He was covering an unknown threat area containing multiple subjects that a fugitive wanted for several violent felonies had just emerged from."
    Also, if a bunch of armed dudes rush you, how would you even know they're legit LE? As far as I can tell, the only thing that identifies them is a decal on the ballistic shield, and maybe the guy's baseball cap. No uniforms (they aren't even dressed in the same non-uniform clothing), no badges I could see, even their vehicles are unmarked SUVs.

    From reading the article, they were definitely armed for bear when picking up this guy, and probably rightfully so. No issues with that at all. But everything else is confusing.

    This isn't the place to bash LE in general nor the US Marshals in particular. But their tactics seem like they're a drug cartel rolling up on a dude rather than law enforcement.

    Edit: This took place a while ago, but was just posted around social media, so it's new to me. Sorry if it's old news, but I don't remember discussing it here.
    Last edited by Koshinn; 04-06-17 at 12:54.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

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