Legalities of Using a SBR as a Pistol.

[domestique]

What are the legal concerns of using a SBR as a Pistol?

I.e. I have a trust member that has a CZ EVO Scorpion and wants to SBR It. However he still would like the ability to convert it back to a pistol when traveling out of state (to avoid paperwork wait times).


We know that putting a 16" AR upper on a SBR now makes it a non-NFA firearm, but I have never seen anyone go back and forth from a pistol to SBR to pistol.





-I was always under the impression that a rifle can never become a pistol once it's registered as a rifle.
-I realize he could just do a Shockwave/Sig brace and folder, but he wants the factory SBR kit, and the lawful ability to shoulder it.
-Obviously turning it back into a pistol would leave little evidence (other than engraving) for a local LEO to see. The concern would be if the firearm was used in a SD shooting and than found out to be a registered SBR while out of state.

[BigWaylon]

We know if it starts life as a pistol, it can go from pistol to rifle and back. My concern was always that when you make it an SBR, you were making a new firearm that starts life as a rifle...so it can't ever be a pistol again.

However, I've somebody email ATF within the last month and was told it was fine to also go pistol->SBR->pistol.

ETA: found the thread...here you go. Now, Gary doesn't quote any statute, but he does say it's OK. Post was last week, but email was back in Feb.


FWIW...I asked CAA/Roni about it sometime in the last year or so, and they said it was always a rifle, even when configured as a pistol, and 5320.20 was required. Dunno.

I would think it becomes a "weapon made from a rifle" as opposed to an actual handgun...but have nothing to back that up.

[nolt]

I think that when you SBR a receiver you've made it a SBR and you can't conveniently call it a pistol just because you take the stock etc off. They've got the paperwork in your specific and individual case that defines that receiver as a rifle.

Probably not very useful to spout this out without a proper link. I'm probably wrong, but I've never seen indisputable NFA proof otherwise, which is what I would personally need to do what they're wanting to do.

edit: can you carry an SBR'd naked receiver ALONE across state lines as suggested without form-age? I didn't think you could.

[BigWaylon]

edit: can you carry an SBR'd naked receiver ALONE across state lines as suggested without form-age? I didn't think you could.

Yes. Without the short barrel, it's not a short barreled rifle. Whether it's stripped, built, or has a 16+" upper on it, you can travel, hunt and sell it as you would a GCA firearm.

So, when configured as a pistol, it's not an SBR. But it could still be a weapon made from a rifle...which is not the same as a pistol.

For me, I've ditched the whole AR pistol idea. I converted all mine to SBRs. Something like a Glock kit would be a whole different story, though.

[JulyAZ]

I've wondered this as well without getting the hard answers the scenario I was thinking was:

a SBR without a stock, but equipped with a Sig Armbrace. When in the state its registered as a SBR it is legal to shoulder. But when taken across state lines is it still a SBR? Or since it isn't equipped with a stock can it be a pistol when crossing state lines as long as it isn't shouldered.

[tb-av]

Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily
Export Certain National Firearms Act (NFA) Firearms

The "Firearm" is the receiver. The Firearm is NFA registered. The tax was paid to make the Firearm into an SBR. You can temporarily convert the Firearm into a pistol, but, the application is still to transport the NFA registered Firearm ( Receiver ).

That's my take on it using ATF definitions and reading the title of the forms.

So where it asks you barrel length and such if you took the pistol you would still have to fill out form.

I don;t see how you can get around taking a NFA registered receiver Interstate.

[BigWaylon]

Application to Transport Interstate or to Temporarily
Export Certain National Firearms Act (NFA) Firearms

The "Firearm" is the receiver. The Firearm is NFA registered. The tax was paid to make the Firearm into an SBR. You can temporarily convert the Firearm into a pistol, but, the application is still to transport the NFA registered Firearm ( Receiver ).

That's my take on it using ATF definitions and reading the title of the forms.

So where it asks you barrel length and such if you took the pistol you would still have to fill out form.

I don;t see how you can get around taking a NFA registered receiver Interstate.

Because without the barrel, it doesn't meet the definition of an NFA item.

Here's an example of one of their letters:



And here's a series of Q&A from the ATF's SBR FAQ, before they updated the website to the current version:

Q: If I remove the short barrel from the registered SBR or SBS, is the receiver still subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations?
If the possessor retains control over the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations. ATF recommends contacting State law enforcement officials to ensure compliance with state and local law.

Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?
Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.

Q: If I remove the short barrel from my SBR or SBS, may I move the firearm across state lines without the submission of ATF Form 5320.20, Application to Transport or to Temporarily Export Certain Firearms?
If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law.

Note that "retains control" is not the same thing as "retains ownership". As long as it's not with you, you're fine.

[BigWaylon]

And a couple more (note the definition of an SBR, coincidently, includes the need for a short barrel):

Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm?
Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA firearm is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn't comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.

Q: Who is responsible for notifying the NFA Branch when I transfer the GCA firearm to a FFL or another individual?
There is no requirement that the transferor or transferee of a GCA firearm notify the NFA branch of a transfer or that either party determine whether the firearm was previously registered under the NFA. There is no also no requirement for the registrant or possessor of a NFA firearm to notify ATF of the removal of features that caused the firearm to be subject to the NFA; however, ATF recommends the owner notify the NFA Branch in writing if a firearm is permanently removed from the NFA.

Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
While a receiver alone may be classified as a firearm under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).

Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.

[tb-av]

To me, and this is just me, like most NFA stuff, their wording is contradictory.

Note that "retains control" is not the same thing as "retains ownership". As long as it's not with you, you're fine.

Does ATF define that? Or is that your definition?

A trustee does not "own" the upper. "Hey Mr. ATF, as trustee if I take the upper off an SBR, am I ok to possess and transport the receiver across State lines? ... btw, I control the Trust which owns the SBR"

A: If the possessor( you as trustee ) retains control over (administers the Trust to ensure the SBR is available for the Beneficiary ) the barrel or other parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm would still be subject to NFA transfer and possession regulations.

Yes, I know the form 20 will state the Trust name but the papers won't be who the authorities are talking to. the Trustee will be possessor transporting the firearm on behalf of the Trust. The Trustee will also have to retain control over the whole shooting match even if all parts are not physically present.

[BigWaylon]

Does ATF define that? Or is that your definition?

That "definition" was taken from the snippet of the letter above.


They also use that general idea when discussing leaving items stored and locked in another state or at a friend/neighbor/relative's house. They never ask you to sell anything, just don't have it with you (for example, moving to a state that doesn't allow NFA, or moving before 5320.20 is approved).