Any input on stance or anything else?

[ubet]

This load is 4.8grs wst with a 230jhp. 4.9 is max load for wst. It chronos around 890 if I remember right

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[Firefly]

Please do not mistake flash shooting or point shooting with people watching. Front sights exist for a reason.

I think some of the better handgun training I received in my career was Rogers Shooting School. They get you into flash shooting (which does require front sight) and you gotta think and react fast. It can be mentally and physically fatiguing. Everything is a building block. I have shot PPC matches since I was a teenager and that, while very much controlled, did give me a great improvement on accuracy.

FWIW, most handgun encounters are going to be within 3 yards. And yes you can still miss and still need to aim for the largest part of the closest threat, reassess, act accordingly. In most defensive shoots, you have already lost the most important thing from the get go: initiative


Any actions undertaken are going to be to regain agency over the armed encounter. If possible.

You may well have to draw and fire from a position of disadvantage or position of injury. Or support hand draw. Action beats reaction. Seen it, done it.

Being an autodidact doesnt parlay well into combat handgunnery. Most people want to mimic something rehearsed or do it by rote. No. You want to know why you are doing what you are doing.

If you dont wear ballistic vest everyday then squaring up isnt really helping, the head swivel is pointless, and bring the gun back to high ready automatically isnt doing much. You only bring it back if you are moving, about to fall, or are at a break and need to rest to avoid muscle fatigue. Temple Index is also kinda stupid.

Really for a regular guy just defending himself you want to practice a consistent weapons scan (possibly with finger on trigger depending on circumstance. Again, Initiative. Initiative is measured in miliseconds) and a defensive egress to at least cover.

People can get shot up and run off, be DRT, or may steel themselves to fight harder and more aggressively. You would not know until it happens

This is less like mathematics and more like physical science. A lot of variables involved where there can be multiple answers and not all are wholly wrong.

It's worth the money for proper, real time instruction. Honestly, you never rise to the occasion, you fall back on the simplest thing you know.

A good command if the dead cold basics beats 99% of the untrained and illiterate and doesnt require too much college thinking.

JMO
YMMV

[echo5whiskey]

This is why I love M4C. ubet, you are getting some gems in here, and I don't mean that in the sarcastic sense. Fundamentals are termed that for a reason. Don't learn fundamentals to forget them, and use something else. Build on them like a foundation.

[ubet]

This is why I love M4C. ubet, you are getting some gems in here, and I don't mean that in the sarcastic sense. Fundamentals are termed that for a reason. Don't learn fundamentals to forget them, and use something else. Build on them like a foundation.

I know I am, and am thankful for it. The download of all the info takes a little work, lol.

I'm trying to get good basics down, but keep feeling as I'm missing something.

The dry fire for trigger control has helped I can tell. I'm keeping a lot more in the a zone than I was a few months ago. I need to make a conscious effort to practice drawing smoothly and body position, or at least I think I need too....

Watching this clips last night I can tell the hesitation from presentation is a lot of time, and the time in between shots is drastic too. It's a good drill though and one I know I need to keep working on.

Am I still milking the gun, can anyone tell?

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[GTF425]

If I could make a recommendation, I would vote to relax. Build solid body mechanics, and don't get so worried about speed before/after something. Don't try too hard to be fast out of the holster...just build a solid, consistent foundation and you'll default on that.

If you aren't already, incorporate follow through into your dry firing and range time. Realign the sights on target after each shot, then reset the trigger. You may have missed, you may need to keep putting rounds into the threat, but insuring that your pistol stays in the fight as long as necessary is good to hardwire in. Even when dry firing, I'll rack the slide, realign sights, then reset the trigger.

Not the best demonstration of what I'm talking about when I mean relax, but here's a vid from some range time a few years ago. The talking point, if one exists, is I feel that both sight tracking and trigger control were fluid given the cadence at each distance. Focus on your front sight, control the trigger, realign your sights, reset the trigger, and repeat. Trigger control is ultimately the crux of accuracy, and the overwhelming majority of shooter errors can simply be summed up with "poor trigger control".

I'm not an instructor (nor do I intend to be one), but hopefully that made sense.

[MegademiC]

Trigger control is key.

I took my parents out and ussually drill front sight to them. I focused them more on grip and trigger control and the groups tightened up significantly. A bad sight picture will throw a round an inch or so. Jerking the trigger will throw it off target.

Don't rush. Load up a bunch of mags and shoot at a berm with no target. Watch only the front sight and pull the trigger when it falls between the rears.

At first you'll need to push left or right, and compensate for dipping or resting too high. You'll begin to speed up as the front sight tracks properly in and out of the rear notch. Then you'll speed up as confidence builds.

Then you learn how fast you can shoot at a given distance and make good hits, what sight picture is required, etc.

Dry fire every day, and you won't have to think about the trigger when you shoot (just verify once a range trip or so).

And don't over think the draw. Find the smoothest way that makes sense and slowly speed up. I used to force a draw fast and fail to release from retention or move all over and drop the first shot. Don't rush to failure, keep a smooth draw that brings the front sight on target, between the rear blades every time.

[echo5whiskey]

I know I am, and am thankful for it. The download of all the info takes a little work, lol.

I'm trying to get good basics down, but keep feeling as I'm missing something.

The dry fire for trigger control has helped I can tell. I'm keeping a lot more in the a zone than I was a few months ago. I need to make a conscious effort to practice drawing smoothly and body position, or at least I think I need too....

Watching this clips last night I can tell the hesitation from presentation is a lot of time, and the time in between shots is drastic too. It's a good drill though and one I know I need to keep working on.

Am I still milking the gun, can anyone tell?

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Talk yourself through each step of the fundamentals. If you notice that you are catching on to some more than others (like it seems you are), make them your focus. Every now and then spot check yourself on the other stuff to make sure you're not going back to a bad habit.

Remember crawl, walk, run. There are two ways to go about gaining speed; force it or work up to it. If you force it, you'll be a fast mediocre shooter, and that's it. If you make sure that you're doing everything right each and every time you shoot, you'll start getting faster and faster as you build "muscle memory." Even after teaching this myself, I still learned it the hard way by trying to keep up with some shooters who are far better than I am.

I have to wait until I get home to look at your videos.

[Firefly]

Aside from trigger control, follow through. A lot of even seasoned shooters forget follow through.

I have long fingers and I put almost my whole first knuckle into the gun. As long as the trigger is squeezed straight back and with good follow through, it works.

People want to come off the trigger too soon.

A good drill, for me anyway, is Dot Torture. They even sell targets specific to it and it really helps me even just staying in shape.

Even with like a .22 semi auto.

[26 Inf]

And don't over think the draw. Find the smoothest way that makes sense and slowly speed up. I used to force a draw fast and fail to release from retention or move all over and drop the first shot. Don't rush to failure, keep a smooth draw that brings the front sight on target, between the rear blades every time.

FAST FOLLOWS FORM

I have been to a lot of courses and I still find that this book was one of my best purchases long ago:

https://www.amazon.com/Fist-Fire-Def.../dp/0972544801

apparently it is out of print LOL.

If nothing else Middlebrook cleaned up my draw to the point that none other than Rob Vogel, during a course I attended, told this middle-aged duffer that I was one of the fastest (note: not THE fastest) to hits on target out of a Safariland Raptor that he'd seen. Considering I'm a klutz, I felt that was testimony to what I gleaned from Middlebrooks' book.

Since the book is apparently no longer available, I'd recommend the DVD's:

http://www.tacticalshooting.com/new-store-111516/

[Arctic1]

I'll disagree on draw speed.

If you want to be fast you have to train at speed. Speed is not something that suddenly develops if you practice a smooth and controlled draw for a set period of time.

You will stumble and mess up getting there, but you need to dry fire against a difficult par time, let's say 1 second, and work toward reaching that goal.
Sure, slow down once in a while to fine tune technique, but to get fast you need to develop your hand speed - having a difficult time to work against is the best method I have seen to date.

Also, do not pull the trigger when using this method - many will race the trigger pull to make the par time and that throws the rest out the window. Draw, get a sight picture.

I am pretty consistent drawing and getting a sight picture in 0,8 seconds at a 7 yard target.