Solvent Trap business gets ATF raid

[Bret]

I also have a letter from the ATF Firearm Technology Branch stating that solvent traps are perfectly legal to sell, own, etc.

It would be interesting to see the letter and will be interesting to see how the ATF tries to explain it away.

[jerrysimons]

Step 1, get a form 1 legally submitted to the ATF, and receive stamp. Step 2 buy raw materials and assemble.

Alternatively, own a solvent trap for a while with NO intent to modify it until the form 1 stamp comes back.

Your intentions can change.

Do you know what a form 1 is???

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"A.T.F....thought police! Yeah!"

ATF could book you and a jury of lowest common denominators can divine your thoughts - decide your fate.

You're both right

[john armond]

The legal concept of constructive possession has virtually zero concrete meaning after all that the ATF has done.

Fertilizer and gasoline for your mower in your garage? You're now a bomb maker. That's the level of f***ing stupid these administrative "clarifications" have gotten.

Also, when reading the quoted statute, be mindful of the "ands" and "ors".

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For the record, I was merely listing numerous items I have in my garage and around the house. I also have tires, hubcaps, a generator, and some old RC cars from my youth.

[Hkbeltfed]

For the other examples given, I don't think it would be wise to set up a website that sells gas, fertilizer, pipes, endcaps, shrapnel and fuse. Or another website that sells rags, bottles, gas and matches.

[SOWT]

Why can't the ATF send a letter and politely knock on your door?

Why do they have to "raid" the premises?

[eodinert]

There are a lot of places that sell 'everything you need' for mayhem... They bear no more responsibility for people doing misdeeds than Ford does for drunk drivers.


Freedom is dangerous. Accept it, or loose it.

[sevenhelmet]

Why can't the ATF send a letter and politely knock on your door?

Why do they have to "raid" the premises?

This. I'm curious whether he got a cease and desist letter or anything prior to having his whole life turned upside down.

Put me in the "government overreach" camp. The ATF is the one that needs to either realign its efforts to real criminals, or just go away. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of customers buying solvent traps weren't drug dealers, gang bangers, or murderers. Plenty of those around with illegal guns to go after. Oh, wait, they just get plea bargains... Meanwhile the good ole' ATF is protecting us from the dangerous surburban husbands (and yes... I kind of saw this coming, but it still sucks that it's how things are in this "free" country.)

[BufordTJustice]

For the record, I was merely listing numerous items I have in my garage and around the house. I also have tires, hubcaps, a generator, and some old RC cars from my youth.

I hear you, just using some sarcasm to make a point....a point not necessarily directed at you, brother.

[BufordTJustice]

This. I'm curious whether he got a cease and desist letter or anything prior to having his whole life turned upside down.

Put me in the "government overreach" camp. The ATF is the one that needs to either realign its efforts to real criminals, or just go away. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of customers buying solvent traps weren't drug dealers, gang bangers, or murderers. Plenty of those around with illegal guns to go after. Oh, wait, they just get plea bargains... Meanwhile the good ole' ATF is protecting us from the dangerous surburban husbands (and yes... I kind of saw this coming, but it still sucks that it's how things are in this "free" country.)

Being a local and state sworn LEO, I liken their childish behavior to the cowardly small town cop patrolling the local highway HARD, with speed traps galore.....while that idiot damn well knows where all the criminals are who victimize his/her community. Yet, he/she chooses to go run a traffic detail instead of doing real police work.

It's abundantly clear to me that the ATF is largely risk-averse and has virtually zero concrete interest in doing things like....oh I dunno....raiding mosques with ties to Hamas/Hezbollah/ISIS or the residences of violent gang/biker gang members....places they (and we) KNOW have illegal guns and explosives in them.

Hell, look how long Leland Yee illegally trafficked in weapons before being arrested. The ATF seem intensely uninterested in catching criminals and, instead, are incredibly preoccupied with making political statements, using otherwise lawful US Citizens as pawns.

[john armond]

There are a lot of places that sell 'everything you need' for mayhem... They bear no more responsibility for people doing misdeeds than Ford does for drunk drivers.


Freedom is dangerous. Accept it, or loose it.

The difference is the BATFE has made possession of certain parts illegal by decree, and not specified anything about the possessor being business or individual. I was merely pointing out the extent one could take their foolish decisions, but yes I do agree that the manufacturer or dealer should not bare responsibility for the actions of the end user, unless they were aware of the users intentions.