Can someone help me out with a quich 41F question?

[diving dave]

If I plan on submitting a form 1 with a trust under the new rules, I see I have to fill out the responsible person form. Question, my wife is listed in the trust as a successor trustee if I croak or am incapacitated. Does she have to fill out the responsible person form with prints and photos also?From what I have read I think she does but just want to double check....Thanks guys

[st381183]

No. She is a beneficiary. If she has authority to use or possess NFA items as a trustee then yes.

[jpmuscle]

No. She is a beneficiary. If she has authority to use or possess NFA items as a trustee then yes.

Correct. I had the same question when I set mine up. My brother is my beneficiary and is the only other name on my trust.


Which oddly enough begs the question why people just don't delist co-trustees from the trust, by nfa items and add them back on the trust afterwords. Thus avoiding the responsible person nonsense. Maybe it's not that simple. Idk.

[st381183]

Correct. I had the same question when I set mine up. My brother is my beneficiary and is the only other name on my trust.



Which oddly enough begs the question why people just don't delist co-trustees from the trust, by nfa items and add them back on the trust afterwords. Thus avoiding the responsible person nonsense. Maybe it's not that simple. Idk.

It is that simple. No one knows but you, but just cuz you can doesn't mean you should. It's all about intent, intent, intent.

[jpmuscle]

I don't see why anyone would want to not minimize their paperwork burden

[joshua_capitolarmory]

If I plan on submitting a form 1 with a trust under the new rules, I see I have to fill out the responsible person form. Question, my wife is listed in the trust as a successor trustee if I croak or am incapacitated. Does she have to fill out the responsible person form with prints and photos also?From what I have read I think she does but just want to double check....Thanks guys

The most likely answer is no... successor trustees or beneficiaries do not GENERALLY need to do prints and photos. But....

From the ATF "In the case of a TRUST, those persons with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust include any person who has the capability to exercise such power and possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust.

Examples of who may be considered a responsible person of a trust or legal entity include:

Settlors/Grantors
Trustees
Partners
Members
Officers
Board members
Owners
Beneficiaries – if said beneficiary has the capability to exercise any of the powers or authorities enumerated above."

The last line is the most important... the vast majority (maybe every?) trust I've seen does not have a beneficiary with those powers. I suppose that someone could write up a trust that says "Jimmy Jones is a beneficiary, and as such as the ability to possess the items listed in this trust but has no power to change the wording of the trust or sell the items."

If it's a case like that, then yes the beneficiary is a responsible party. ...and before anyone says "That's stupid, no one's trust would ever say that" You would be incorrect. I've seen a trust, from a lawyer, where the settlor wasn't a trustee and couldn't legally possess the items. I've seen all sorts of bizarre trusts that most experienced persons would shake their head at and never dream of using. I've seen trusts without people's legal names in them (ie something like... Big Skip is a trustee) then the person says "My name is Donald Jerome Johnson, but my buddy who made the trust calls me big skip because I skipped the biggest rock across the pond when we were 9.

There is ALL sorts of silly stuff in trusts... so best solution is read over them and really understand things, or have a reputable lawyer help out.

[SC-Texas]

Joshua is correct. It depends on the trust and who wrote it and how it was designed to work.


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