DI or Piston?

[wanderson]

IMHO piston setups are good when running dirty ammo and you want to keep crud out of the action. That's why 5.56 ammo usually burns clean since it's probably going in an AR. But I run steel 5.56 and a LOT of dirty 7.62x39 in DI ARs, no issues. And an AR is pretty easy to clean.

I don't care for piston ARs, more reciprocating mass, too expensive. There's plenty of piston rifles out there that work fine.

[MistWolf]

If you want a piston AR, get a good one. LMT. The operating rod will break around 60k rounds. Mine did. When it does, or when you want a different setup, you'll still have a sturdy upper receiver to work with.

That's all I'll say in lieu of MistWolf's rebuttal.

You know me all to well

Spartan, all ARs have a piston. It's just a matter of having the piston in the carrier as Eugene Stoner designed it, or having the piston in the gas block. No matter where the piston is located, the ammunition still generates just as much heat, just as much fouling and just as much recoil.

When the piston is in the gas block, the piston is a smaller diameter and is subject to more heat and at least as much fouling as a piston in the carrier. The advantage to having the piston in the carrier is that it can be lubed which helps to keep the fouling soft and easier to clean and the gas has cooled significantly passing through the gas tube.

I don't have any experience with ARs with gas block pistons but I do with FALs which is similar. I find a conventional AR easier to clean and maintain. When talking to shooters who do have experience with gas block piston ARs, most agree that the HK is the way to go

[JC5188]

You know me all to well

Spartan, all ARs have a piston. It's just a matter of having the piston in the carrier as Eugene Stoner designed it, or having the piston in the gas block. No matter where the piston is located, the ammunition still generates just as much heat, just as much fouling and just as much recoil.

When the piston is in the gas block, the piston is a smaller diameter and is subject to more heat and at least as much fouling as a piston in the carrier. The advantage to having the piston in the carrier is that it can be lubed which helps to keep the fouling soft and easier to clean and the gas has cooled significantly passing through the gas tube.

I don't have any experience with ARs with gas block pistons but I do with FALs which is similar. I find a conventional AR easier to clean and maintain. When talking to shooters who do have experience with gas block piston ARs, most agree that the HK is the way to go

Piston AR's are a lot of things, but harder to clean isn't one of them. I suppose it could come down to which type of piston, I only have exp with the short-stroke. At worst, I find they are equal in cleaning effort required.

The bcg is cleaner. But, that's about where the "benefits" end. Since cleaning a gun is enjoyable to some, subjectively it may or may not be a benefit. Since a conventional AR can be kept running without cleaning, by just keeping it lubed...objectively it really isn't a benefit at all.

I do own both, and while my piston AR has worked great since day one, it does so with more weight (P-I-G), more recoil, and more expense. Considerably more of each.

I can see where if someone shoots the majority of the time suppressed, it could be a benefit.

Personally, if I could do it over, I'd buy an SR-15 for the money.

I damned sure wouldn't BUILD a piston AR.

ETA...

all references to "piston" are for the purposes of distinguishing between the two types. I agree that the original Stoner design is also a piston.


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[tom12.7]

Needing extra energy provided for the band aid that adds more deflections and what normally would be excess stresses and strains with result of reduced consistency of many things isn't really a good solution in my book.

[ABNAK]

The only piston AR-type rifle I can recommend is an HK. Cost and availability keeps that out of most people's arsenals. As stated above, the carbon goes somewhere.....on a piston it goes, well, on the piston and usually all around it. The HK (at least the vented gas blocked ones) expels the excess gas forward and upward, away from the weapon. All other piston systems that I'm aware of vents it out under the handguards somewhere, usually making a mess of everything around it.

If you want a piston gun you should look for one built from the ground up as a piston weapon, not one added as an afterthought.

[JC5188]

The only piston AR-type rifle I can recommend is an HK. Cost and availability keeps that out of most people's arsenals. As stated above, the carbon goes somewhere.....on a piston it goes, well, on the piston and usually all around it. The HK (at least the vented gas blocked ones) expels the excess gas forward and upward, away from the weapon. All other piston systems that I'm aware of vents it out under the handguards somewhere, usually making a mess of everything around it.

If you want a piston gun you should look for one built from the ground up as a piston weapon, not one added as an afterthought.

The LWRC vents under the removable rail guard, clean it if you want or don't. It isn't difficult. Quite easy, actually.







I have between 5-700 rounds through this one since last cleaning. Notice the handguard (inside) is what collects the most debris.



You can see under the block where it is also expelled, and tends to turn "statue of liberty green" it cleans of easily, but I usually just wipe it and go.




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[JC5188]

Bcg from same range session...






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[ABNAK]

The LWRC vents under the removable rail guard, clean it if you want or don't. It isn't difficult. Quite easy, actually.

I'm not dogging on LWRCi, and their removable rail section makes clean-up easier than under a fixed handguard/rail. FWIW I've played with several aftermarket pistons from back when they were first available from Paul Leitner-Wise as conversions, circa 2004. Since then I've had LWRC (initial conversion and subsequent factory uppers x 2), POF, Ruger, Osprey, PWS, and HK.


Right now, unless it's an HK, I'll have my AR's in DI flavor.

[JC5188]

I'm not dogging on LWRCi, and their removable rail section makes clean-up easier than under a fixed handguard/rail. FWIW I've played with several aftermarket pistons from back when they were first available from Paul Leitner-Wise as conversions, circa 2004. Since then I've had LWRC (initial conversion and subsequent factory uppers x 2), POF, Ruger, Osprey, PWS, and HK.


Right now, unless it's an HK, I'll have my AR's in DI flavor.

Absolutely agree. Am just pointing out that it is in fact easy to clean. Nothing like an FAL as MistWolf stated earlier.

My LWRC was supposed to be an HK... they were near unobtanium back then and I got tired of the wait list @ 3 months in.


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[vicious_cb]

I'm not dogging on LWRCi, and their removable rail section makes clean-up easier than under a fixed handguard/rail. FWIW I've played with several aftermarket pistons from back when they were first available from Paul Leitner-Wise as conversions, circa 2004. Since then I've had LWRC (initial conversion and subsequent factory uppers x 2), POF, Ruger, Osprey, PWS, and HK.


Right now, unless it's an HK, I'll have my AR's in DI flavor.

I am. LWRCs are overpriced boutique shit. But that sprial fluted barrel looks pretty cool at the range.