Offset/45 deg sights on scoped rifles?

[tehpwnag3]

It's not about "killing". It's about stopping the threat ASAP, and buckshot (#1 or better) does this very well. This loading can also penetrate furniture and appliances that an armed badguy might be hiding behind. All this nonsense of blasting someone in the face with field loads doesn't always play out as planned.

If you would like to learn (or discuss this) more, go over to "the basement" at Shotgunworld and ask about birdshot for home defense. They will point you to COUNTLESS threads on this subject. They will also help you with load selection (it won't be PDX1, I can assure you) and the right accessories for your shotgun.

Good day to you, sir.

In my case it's just my preference, I've deployed six times in my 22yrs of military service. I was combat arms so my deployments were not hanging out on a cozy FOB somewhere. I've seen plenty of bad stuff during deployments that I'm not in such a hurry to "kill" everything that might come into my house, but if it comes to that than so be it.

Getting back OT, my Magpul offset pro's arrived today and their much more solid than I had expected. So far I'm happy with my decision to go with the magpul but until I try them at the range I can't give the GTG.

[T2C]

Agreed, at home we have pistols as the fist line of defense. The Remington 870 tactical is the next, and then worse case the AR's are on standby. In my neighborhood I'd rather stick with the 870, I have 2 bird shot rounds followed by slug/buckshot combo rounds.
Attachment 45235

I have an iron sighted 870 loaded with #4 buckshot I keep in the home. I adjusted the light mount until the brightest part of the beam coincides with the center of the shot pattern at 20 feet.

How is your optic in low light conditions with the light pointed at a white or light colored wall?

[hdrolling]

It's not about "killing". It's about stopping the threat ASAP, and buckshot (#1 or better) does this very well. This loading can also penetrate furniture and appliances that an armed badguy might be hiding behind. All this nonsense of blasting someone in the face with field loads doesn't always play out as planned.

If you would like to learn (or discuss this) more, go over to "the basement" at Shotgunworld and ask about birdshot for home defense. They will point you to COUNTLESS threads on this subject. They will also help you with load selection (it won't be PDX1, I can assure you) and the right accessories for your shotgun.

Good day to you, sir.

For me, if I hear something in my house that I think requires the shotgun I'm going to go find and confront whatever is causing the disturbance. For my house that would put me around 10-15 ft from whatever I find and identify as a threat or not. At 10ft my birdshot will put a big hole in whatever I'm firing at, maybe not at 50 ft but at 50ft it I think the thread needs to die I'll have already pumped two birdshot and started into a more lethal load.

I have seen several other forums that have the same discussions and it ultimately falls on the owner to load what he feels will do the job. I'm sure everything your saying is true, just not the way I want to go.

I have an iron sighted 870 loaded with #4 buckshot I keep in the home. I adjusted the light mount until the brightest part of the beam coincides with the center of the shot pattern at 20 feet.

How is your optic in low light conditions with the light pointed at a white or light colored wall?

I've never really played with my 870 to see how the optic is in low light, my light is the streamlight MX6 light/laser combo. In low light I have the laser and light on at the same time, the plan was to just put the laser on the target. Most of my weapon attachments are leftover military issued stuff that I wasn't required to turn in when I retired. Most of it's out of date/ larger than can be found now a days and heavier. But I already have it so I'm using it until I get around to buying better. The optic was on my S&W M&P 15 when I bought it so I transferred it to my 870 when I put the Aimpoint on my AR.

How much did you use birdshot on deployments? Why would you choose to shoot a threat with something that has a track record of failing to stop the threat?


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On deployments we used non-lethal rounds in our shotguns, they just shot plastic pellets. Not all threats need to be shot dead.

[tehpwnag3]

Not all threats feel the same way as you do. Good luck, I'm out.

On deployments we used non-lethal rounds in our shotguns, they just shot plastic pellets. Not all threats need to be shot dead.

[tehpwnag3]

Maybe I'm not out just yet. I think this is a software issue, to be frank. Are you saying that when coming over to my place for a beer that you'll be okay being greeted with birdshot? Define what a "threat" is, in your mind. To me, a threat isn't a buddy coming over for beverages. Get real.

Again, I am FAR from blood-thirsty. I don't want anyone to die, nor do I want to die myself (or my loved ones). But, if it's a choice between me or badguy, I think you already know that I am not going to gamble with wounding shots and situational gunplay. If I have to pull the trigger, it will be because there is no other choice, and when that happens, I want the best ammo for the job. Period. That's not birdshot, bean bags, or smoke bombs.

I'll remember to knock next time I come by for a beer.

[hdrolling]

Maybe I'm not out just yet. I think this is a software issue, to be frank. Are you saying that when coming over to my place for a beer that you'll be okay being greeted with birdshot? Define what a "threat" is, in your mind. To me, a threat isn't a buddy coming over for beverages. Get real.

Again, I am FAR from blood-thirsty. I don't want anyone to die, nor do I want to die myself (or my loved ones). But, if it's a choice between me or badguy, I think you already know that I am not going to gamble with wounding shots and situational gunplay. If I have to pull the trigger, it will be because there is no other choice, and when that happens, I want the best ammo for the job. Period. That's not birdshot, bean bags, or smoke bombs.

Maybe it's my military training or maybe living out in the country here where everyone knows everyone, but I've allows be taught to use the least amount of firepower to get the the job done. We try for as little collateral damage and loss of life as permitted.

And now you have me sounding like a liberal hippy, damn....

I'm going to go rub my jumpwings for a while and drink a beer, birdshot free.

Also I'm four days out from testing these Magpul offsets out, really interested in seeing if their going to be useful at all. Along with those I have a new spotter scope and a vortex SPARC that I picked up on sale that need some range time.

[PattonWasRight]

Also I'm four days out from testing these Magpul offsets out, really interested in seeing if their going to be useful at all. Along with those I have a new spotter scope and a vortex SPARC that I picked up on sale that need some range time.

Good new stuff. When you try out the offsets, see if / how the recoil changes with the gun canted. Would appreciate if you try standing, off hand to see if can hold center of mass hits at a rapid-ish pace. Thx.

[Mysteryman]

MM,

I understand what your saying. I do have the one Gun of Guns as I call it. So in your situation it's the one gun I grab. That same logic is why I only own Glocks. Commonality and redundancy is important. But my truck gun is not a replica of my primary weapon. I am not ready to have that kind money in my truck relatively unsecured. Which honestly I haven't seen a truck yet that I'd call secure. (Except a truck with a really big dog in it.). However I make sure my truck gun has the same type of optic and the same basic handling characteristics as my primary weapon.
But what if the situation does not dictate grab "a gun" and run? Aren't there situations where having an SBR with an LPV is better suited than my AR geared more for CQB? I thinks there are right? That's why I train on both and also push out the range on my CQB optics and train CQ drills with my LPV. I have not done that with my SPR and I have not had my DMR long enough (1 week) yet except to zero. My SPR now has an optic that is mostly usable at 10 yards and still have distance capability it was built for.
My thought process has been I'd rather have it and be able to use it than not have it and need it. But to your point, saying I had limited time to grab a couple of items and go, I'd grab my Gun of Guns and my SPR - for commonality of ammo. But if I have time to load up the truck and hit my go-to place? I'm taking my SBR's, SPR, and my DMR and all that I can. Because I want to be as prepared as I can be. At least that's the plan. Who knows how it will shake out, I can just do my part to be as ready as I can.




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I understand not having the exact setup due to risk of theft etc. Your approach is still a logical one in that your optic is the same and the general characteristics are also the same or similar.

I see where you're coming from with multiple setups and the possibility of a situation or situations where a different one may be of value. The reality is that planning for every possibility is both money/time consuming and unrealistic. Investing in a half dozen rifles is a lot of money that could better spent on training, alarm system/surveillance, moving to a better town/city/neighbourhood etc etc. You can only use one rifle at a time and the one you shoot the most will be the one you shoot the best. From the tinfoil hat side of possibilities you shouldn't be looking to make contact and should be avoiding it whenever possible. Carrying multiple different setups is a waste of resources.

MM

[MegademiC]

For me, if I hear something in my house that I think requires the shotgun I'm going to go find and confront whatever is causing the disturbance. For my house that would put me around 10-15 ft from whatever I find and identify as a threat or not. At 10ft my birdshot will put a big hole in whatever I'm firing at, maybe not at 50 ft but at 50ft it I think the thread needs to die I'll have already pumped two birdshot and started into a more lethal load.

I have seen several other forums that have the same discussions and it ultimately falls on the owner to load what he feels will do the job. I'm sure everything your saying is true, just not the way I want to go.

At 1ft birdshot will make a big hole. A very shallow one that will not reliably incapacitate a threat. Up close is when you need to stop a threat "now".

Do what you want, but you are not setting yourself up for success in as many situations as possible. That said, chances are low of testing it out.

Maybe it's my military training or maybe living out in the country here where everyone knows everyone, but I've allows be taught to use the least amount of firepower to get the the job done. We try for as little collateral damage and loss of life as permitted.

And now you have me sounding like a liberal hippy, damn....

I'm going to go rub my jumpwings for a while and drink a beer, birdshot free.

Also I'm four days out from testing these Magpul offsets out, really interested in seeing if their going to be useful at all. Along with those I have a new spotter scope and a vortex SPARC that I picked up on sale that need some range time.

I stop worrying about someone's life when they threaten mine. The goal is to be able to defend myself and loved ones as best as possible, using what might work does not work towards that goal. Using something that has the capability to stop a threat instantly as reliably as possible is most people's goals here. Ymmv.

Non lethal is an offensive weapon, not one for defense in a life threatening situation. As a civilian, You either need to shoot or you dont. I can't think of any situation that "kind of " shooting a threat would end well.

Back on topic.

[Leuthas]

Why would someone be satisfied by, 'using my handgun if I'm moving around the house, shotgun if I'm barricaded in my room and AR if the fight moves into the yard'?

Are you going to carry all three and transition as a fight progresses?

That's kind of odd.