What's your HD/SD reticle preference?

[Cartel]

Aimpoint Micro T-1/T-2 (2 MOA) Red Dot

[Iraqgunz]

Oh look. A place for questions and discussions about optics. https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdispl...ics-amp-Mounts

[Kdubya]

I prefer the Eotech reticle but shoot an Aimpoint T2. Ultiamte for me would be the Eotech reticle in a T2.

Well, you could always go with a Holosun 500 series and have both options in one. Although, that'd likely mean accepting some criticism for purchasing an Aimpoint "knockoff". Who knows, maybe Eotech's fall from grace, and Holosun's added features, will drive Aimpoint to add an alternative reticle to their lineup. It's also work to set them apart from the MRO that's been gaining ground.

In spite of this poll turning out to be fairly lopsided in favor of a single dot, I'd imagine an Aimpoint with an Eotech style reticle would do pretty well. If they were to go with a dual reticle optiion, it might become their top seller. If nothing else were compromised, and pricing was roughly the same, I'm not sure there would be a reason to go with the dot only offering.

As long as we're doing hypotheticals...Would anyone not buy an Aimpoint with two reticle options and all else being equal?

[tehpwnag3]

I highly doubt that Aimpoint will go to the circle dot. That will drastically diminish the battery life, and this is one of the major selling points.

As for Holosun, it's a Chinese-made optic and long-term, rough use hasn't been established yet. I am not saying that the Chinese cannot make a decent sight, but I think it would have to be absolutely bombproof to win market share from the likes of this forum (and other "hard use" types). Some of the features are nice indeed, but more complexity can also add weaknesses that the Aimpoint won't suffer from. For the money, I think they are a good RDS. The dot and sight picture is as good as an Aimpoint, I'll give it that. However, I didn't put mine on anything I would grab in a hurry. Call me skeptical. Even with the auto-off/auto-on circuitry, the Holosun cannot boast the battery life they once did in order to compete with Aimpoint. I think they are down to 10,000 hours with the circle dot reticle. I haven't had to use any kind of warranty service yet, but I'll be curious how that will be handled, if I do. Mr. GNG broke the supplied mount in a drop test. I wonder if that would be covered.

Well, you could always go with a Holosun 500 series and have both options in one. Although, that'd likely mean accepting some criticism for purchasing an Aimpoint "knockoff". Who knows, maybe Eotech's fall from grace, and Holosun's added features, will drive Aimpoint to add an alternative reticle to their lineup. It's also work to set them apart from the MRO that's been gaining ground.

In spite of this poll turning out to be fairly lopsided in favor of a single dot, I'd imagine an Aimpoint with an Eotech style reticle would do pretty well. If they were to go with a dual reticle optiion, it might become their top seller. If nothing else were compromised, and pricing was roughly the same, I'm not sure there would be a reason to go with the dot only offering.

As long as we're doing hypotheticals...Would anyone not buy an Aimpoint with two reticle options and all else being equal?

[Gabriel556]

I prefer the Eotech reticle like the minority. Maybe it's because I started with that instead of a single dot, but I would buy an Aimpoint if they offered the same option.

[Kdubya]

I highly doubt that Aimpoint will go to the circle dot. That will drastically diminish the battery life, and this is one of the major selling points.

As for Holosun, it's a Chinese-made optic and long-term, rough use hasn't been established yet. I am not saying that the Chinese cannot make a decent sight, but I think it would have to be absolutely bombproof to win market share from the likes of this forum (and other "hard use" types). Some of the features are nice indeed, but more complexity can also add weaknesses that the Aimpoint won't suffer from. For the money, I think they are a good RDS. The dot and sight picture is as good as an Aimpoint, I'll give it that. However, I didn't put mine on anything I would grab in a hurry. Call me skeptical. Even with the auto-off/auto-on circuitry, the Holosun cannot boast the battery life they once did in order to compete with Aimpoint. I think they are down to 10,000 hours with the circle dot reticle. I haven't had to use any kind of warranty service yet, but I'll be curious how that will be handled, if I do. Mr. GNG broke the supplied mount in a drop test. I wonder if that would be covered.

I generally agree with everything you've stated. The battery life is a noteworthy point. At face value, 10k hours is pretty solid performance. But cutting battery life by around 80% is a significant change. Still, if it retained the option for a single dot at 50k hours of battery life, I think it would be less of a concern. But, as you suggest, it's probably a long-shot that Aimpont would pursue an alternative reticle.

Regarding market share, I think you make a reasonable assessment. For the "hard use" crowd, they're going to want a longer track record of rugged reliability. At the same time, there are many who might have been considering an Aimpont, but are satisfied with the Holosun user reports, features, warranty, etc. That contingent of consumers could afford an Aimpoint, but is willing to tolerate the reliability/durability question and opt for the cost savings. If nothing else, there are likely some considering a second or third Aimpoint. They also might take a hard look at the cost savings, and feel a little more comfortable taking a chance on Holosun; as they already have a primary optic with that long history of durability.

As far as added features, I think there's always a consideration that more "bells and whistles" aren't guaranteed to be wholly positive. More electronics opens the door to more opportunities for failure. For Holosun, their unique features really just get tossed in with all the other questions about long term reliability. Time will tell. Now, if Aimpont were to add those features, I think their history of success would mitigate most apprehension that the new attributes would invite poorer performance/reliability. So, the issue with adding features is probably less about the actual features and more about the entity doing the production.

I did pick up one of the Holosuns last week, and my initial impressions are pretty similar to yours. For the money, it seems like a great value. The glass is very clear and the dot is crisp. The auto-wake and shutoff work...for now. It's just the single dot version, and it's essentially what sparked this thread. All of my scopes and RDS have largely been Eotech and ACSS type reticles. While I've shot with Aimpoints and similar before, I've never personally had any on my rifles. At the range I've generally liked the single dot RDS. But now that I've had a chance to try one around the home, I was little unenthused; especially in low light. Part of it is obviously my history of running larger reticles. So, I was interested to know what those without the "familiarity bias" ultimately choose.

Again, I hadn't anticipated the poll would be quite this lopsided, and I plan to give the single dot a chance to grow on me. I didn't buy the Holosun with an expectation that it would go on a primary rifle. It's pretty much an experimental purchase on a couple of levels. So as long as it holds up reasonably well, I'll continue to be happy with it.

[vicious_cb]

I run all aimpoints but Ill concede that you can be faster on an eotech reticle. Too bad eotechs fail too easily, I wouldnt use them even before their thermal shift debacle.

If the optic proves itself I think this reticle will be the wave of the future.

[tehpwnag3]

I'll have to check the spec sheet but I think the single dot mode on a Holosun is about 30k hours, if their estimates hold water. You're right, that's plenty long, and if they get anywhere close to that I'll be plenty happy. Batteries are relatively cheap to replace. I even change them out of my Aimpoints a year early, just in case.

Even though a consumer can buy three Holosuns for the price of a single T1 (maybe even T2) and outfit three guns, durability/quality/reputation seems to win the day for Aimpoint. Sure, I know people who think a TRS-25 is all the red dot they'll ever need. And maybe it is. I can't tell anyone how to spend their money. However, the Holosun 5xx is the budget RDS to beat right now, IMO. I wouldn't go any lower in price point than that. This RDS has lived on my training carbine for the last 1.5+ years. I kick the shit out of this gun and everything is holding up well so far. I keep it set on single dot only because I want it to mirror my go-to carbine as closely as possible. My wife's BCM 16" LW mid-length wears a Holosun 503BU and she prefers the circle dot. She's not a hardcore AR enthusiast, unlike the rest of us, so this RDS suits her just fine.

I started RDS' with Eotech. I think they have the fastest, most precise reticle. Of course, battery life and a lack of "set it & forget it" has always been an issue when compared to Aimpoint. My last Eotech purchase was an EXPS3.0, which met the recall qualification. I used the refund toward a new T2. Couldn't be happier. It absolutely oozes quality. The clicks on the elevation and windage are crisp and positive (same for the brightness dial). It lives on my BCM 16" mid-length with Vltor A5 system and this is my go-to carbine. I also own an PRO that lives on my 20" BCM. Another great RDS for the money.

I am actually not surprised at all by the poll results. In just about every "which one" thread on this board, Aimpoint is suggested most and for damn good reason. They are simple, durable, reliable, durable, high-quality, durable. Did I mention durable? They are built to last. With practice, finding the single dot quickly isn't a problem (for me).

I've always liked this video:

I generally agree with everything you've stated. The battery life is a noteworthy point. At face value, 10k hours is pretty solid performance. But cutting battery life by around 80% is a significant change. Still, if it retained the option for a single dot at 50k hours of battery life, I think it would be less of a concern. But, as you suggest, it's probably a long-shot that Aimpont would pursue an alternative reticle.

Regarding market share, I think you make a reasonable assessment. For the "hard use" crowd, they're going to want a longer track record of rugged reliability. At the same time, there are many who might have been considering an Aimpont, but are satisfied with the Holosun user reports, features, warranty, etc. That contingent of consumers could afford an Aimpoint, but is willing to tolerate the reliability/durability question and opt for the cost savings. If nothing else, there are likely some considering a second or third Aimpoint. They also might take a hard look at the cost savings, and feel a little more comfortable taking a chance on Holosun; as they already have a primary optic with that long history of durability.

As far as added features, I think there's always a consideration that more "bells and whistles" aren't guaranteed to be wholly positive. More electronics opens the door to more opportunities for failure. For Holosun, their unique features really just get tossed in with all the other questions about long term reliability. Time will tell. Now, if Aimpont were to add those features, I think their history of success would mitigate most apprehension that the new attributes would invite poorer performance/reliability. So, the issue with adding features is probably less about the actual features and more about the entity doing the production.

I did pick up one of the Holosuns last week, and my initial impressions are pretty similar to yours. For the money, it seems like a great value. The glass is very clear and the dot is crisp. The auto-wake and shutoff work...for now. It's just the single dot version, and it's essentially what sparked this thread. All of my scopes and RDS have largely been Eotech and ACSS type reticles. While I've shot with Aimpoints and similar before, I've never personally had any on my rifles. At the range I've generally liked the single dot RDS. But now that I've had a chance to try one around the home, I was little unenthused; especially in low light. Part of it is obviously my history of running larger reticles. So, I was interested to know what those without the "familiarity bias" ultimately choose.

Again, I hadn't anticipated the poll would be quite this lopsided, and I plan to give the single dot a chance to grow on me. I didn't buy the Holosun with an expectation that it would go on a primary rifle. It's pretty much an experimental purchase on a couple of levels. So as long as it holds up reasonably well, I'll continue to be happy with it.

[tehpwnag3]

Can't have two videos in one post, so here's the same producer evaluating the Holosun:

[Kdubya]

Can't have two videos in one post, so here's the same producer evaluating the Holosun:

I'd thought the literature stated 50,000+ hours for the Holosun with the single dot. Although, I'm not sure if the auto-off feature somehow is factored into that equation. As we both agree, even getting only 10-20k hours is still better than most. Say that it holds up just as well as an Aimpoint, and the only notable difference is that it gets half of the stated battery life. I'd still call that a win. At 1/3 the price of an Aimpoint, I think most consumers wouldn't get too worked up over replacing the battery every couple years; as opposed to every 4-5 years with an Aimpoint. Again, that's IF all else were to remain the same. Which has not been demonstrated yet.

It is interesting you bring up the TRS-25. I've long felt that the argument for buying a Holosun is more about how it compares to the Bushnell than an Aimpoint. Earlier we talked about the hard use crowd. It's a fact that it'll be very difficult to convince them to purchase a Holosun over an Aimpoint. But, many from that same crowd have been inclined to recommend the TRS-25 for those on a tight budget. I definitely agree that Holosun has raised the bar for what should be considered the best bang for your buck in budget optics. But, it's not just the features that make me say it's much better than a TRS-25. I've watched a couple videos of Holosun staff being interviewed, and I get a very Faxon-like feel from them. They appear to have a genuine passion about their end product and seem committed to exceeding the customer expectations. Even if they never manage to peel away droves of Aimpoint loyalists, I still think they'll do very well.

I get why the poll results may not have been surprising. In spite of my efforts to make it solely about the reticle, it's hard to convince people to completely divorce themselves from reality. Aimpoint absolutely deserves the stellar reputation and following they've earned. Still, had it been taken solely at face value, I think it may have been a little less lopsided. Maybe I'm wrong. But I really think the results were partially driven by a propensity to associate each reticle type with its respective brand.

I will admit that after a couple days of messing around with the Holosun around the house, my initial lack of enthusiasm was definitely influenced by familiarity. I still think the Eotech style will always seem a little quicker, but I can understand how a little bit of time behind a single-dot would make the disparity much more negligible.

I've definitely enjoyed the conversation here. Now off to watch those videos while I do a little grilling!