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Thread: Brake vs. Bare Muzzle vs. Flash Hider...it matters.

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiv View Post
    You’d probably think this is out there, but a brake/comp/flash hider is installed at the most critical point for accuracy on a rifle. Sometimes the weight can “tune” the barrel. I’ve had barrels that shot better with the addition of a brake or comp. In fact, some Rimfire BR shooters use adjustable “tuners” on the muzzle to dial in their loads as rimfire ammunition isn’t tunable like reloaded centerfire.

    I’ve experienced this effect with rifles myself which the harmonica were taped with the application of a muzzle device. I’ve one particular BCM SS410 that had the accuracy suffer once I pulled the factory comp off in favor of a flash hider (so I could mount a Surefire suppressor).
    It's not "out there" at all. Dampening the muzzle vibration or extending the vibration node at the window of projectile exit usually results in improved precision potential.

    I find it odd that every example you’ve found an increase. Barrels and precision are weird things. I’d be interested to see your data and tested methodology. You should put it all in a thread for the rest of us sometime if you can.
    I can't publish proprietary testing, just sharing what I can to spread info.
    Jack Leuba
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    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  2. #72
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    Have you noticed a difference between muzzle breaks and flash hiders? Theoretically flash hiders should have less contribution to the barrel harmonics since they dont experience as much pressure upon exit as muzzle breaks do. Unless Im missing something.

    What about closed tine vs 3 or 4 prong flash hiders. Ive seen prong type FHs be market as 'harmonic dampeners' due to their tuning fork like effect after a shot is fired. I noticed the new MAMS type FH is a prong type vs the old NT4 A2 style. Is it just better flash hiding performance or is there more to the design?

    Also we need more whiskey fueled P&S modcasts.
    Last edited by vicious_cb; 02-15-18 at 13:22.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Have you noticed a difference between muzzle breaks and flash hiders? Theoretically flash hiders should have less contribution to the barrel harmonics since they dont experience as much pressure upon exit as muzzle breaks do. Unless Im missing something.

    What about closed tine vs 3 or 4 prong flash hiders. Ive seen prong type FHs be market as 'harmonic dampeners' due to their tuning fork like effect after a shot is fired. I noticed the new MAMS type FH is a prong type vs the old NT4 A2 style. Is it just better flash hiding performance or is there more to the design?
    There are indeed differences between brakes and flash hiders, but even a flash hider can induce negative effect depending on design. That said, most flash hiders have less effect than most brakes. Part of what effects the equation is the column of compressed gas (air) that is pushed down the bore in front of the projectile, which acts against the muzzle device, applying force the barrel. This interaction is greatly reduced when a flash hider is present as opposed to an effective brake.

    With the MAMS, the tines were a way to have a flash reducing (ignition dispersal) effect along with braking ability. It also looks cool, which is not a minor factor, haha.

    Also we need more whiskey fueled P&S modcasts.
    Hah! Thanks, I think I am the only modcast participant that collected actual complaints due to on-air imbibement. Had I known it was going to be a 3-hour event I would have significantly altered my early intake.
    Jack Leuba
    Director of Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    There are indeed differences between brakes and flash hiders, but even a flash hider can induce negative effect depending on design. That said, most flash hiders have less effect than most brakes. Part of what effects the equation is the column of compressed gas (air) that is pushed down the bore in front of the projectile, which acts against the muzzle device, applying force the barrel. This interaction is greatly reduced when a flash hider is present as opposed to an effective brake.

    With the MAMS, the tines were a way to have a flash reducing (ignition dispersal) effect along with braking ability. It also looks cool, which is not a minor factor, haha.



    Hah! Thanks, I think I am the only modcast participant that collected actual complaints due to on-air imbibement. Had I known it was going to be a 3-hour event I would have significantly altered my early intake.
    Haha, we need to see a modcast with you and Mike when both of you are drinking.

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  5. #75
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    So, a simple question might be: if I replace my BCM Model Zero Gunfighter compensator with an AAC Blackout flash hider is it possible my accuracy will go down the crapper and I'll end up putting the BCM compensator back on?

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    So, a simple question might be: if I replace my BCM Model Zero Gunfighter compensator with an AAC Blackout flash hider is it possible my accuracy will go down the crapper and I'll end up putting the BCM compensator back on?
    I have a VLTOR 302 short on a .243 bolt action project rifle. Ruger American Predator 22" barrel, Boyds stock, CDI bottom metal. Works great & accuracy seemingly unaffected with A1 style birdcage 302. It's design also attempts compensation, but the longer 301 is much better at that.
    Cannot speak to flash suppression yet but the 301 & 302 both use the cloverleaf design at the muzzle. On a .308 AR 10 the longer 301 reduced felt recoil and muzzle rise for sure. On the .243 bolt gun the oversize caliber (.30) diameter does not affect performance. And that came from testing results at PG Works.
    Both designs are well worth the $50 price tag IMO.


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  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    So, a simple question might be: if I replace my BCM Model Zero Gunfighter compensator with an AAC Blackout flash hider is it possible my accuracy will go down the crapper and I'll end up putting the BCM compensator back on?
    Did not mean to jump your thread. Just posting my .02C on muzzle devices here.

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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Also remember than .308 isn't .223, in a whole lot of ways.

    Exactly Jack.

    A .308 semi-auto will expose every fault in the fundamentals. There is more recoil and if you do not drive the rifle through the three distinct impulses of the carrier movement (bolt unlocking, carrier fully to the rear, picking up next round and slamming it the chamber) you will become frustrated quickly.

    You get a lot more leeway with 5.56. That's why many new semi-auto .308 shooters get frustrated and think the rifle/barrel is inaccurate. BTW: I'm not referring to the shooter that WS6 is speaking of in this thread to be clear.




    ETA: WOW totally missed Jack's explanation of muzzle devices above. NOTE to SELF stop trying to think critically and post with the flu, reading comprehension is iffy.
    Last edited by jethroUSMC; 02-21-18 at 17:47. Reason: Flu induced confusion of words

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiv View Post
    You’d probably think this is out there, but a brake/comp/flash hider is installed at the most critical point for accuracy on a rifle. Sometimes the weight can “tune” the barrel. I’ve had barrels that shot better with the addition of a brake or comp. In fact, some Rimfire BR shooters use adjustable “tuners” on the muzzle to dial in their loads as rimfire ammunition isn’t tunable like reloaded centerfire.

    I’ve experienced this effect with rifles myself which the harmonica were taped with the application of a muzzle device. I’ve one particular BCM SS410 that had the accuracy suffer once I pulled the factory comp off in favor of a flash hider (so I could mount a Surefire suppressor).

    I find it odd that every example you’ve found an increase. Barrels and precision are weird things. I’d be interested to see your data and tested methodology. You should put it all in a thread for the rest of us sometime if you can.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Precision Gun Works posted a review of muzzle brakes on both 6 & 6.5 mm rifles. His results, some of which I referred to below, showed that one of least effective brakes was the Surefire Socom. Surprising for sure. I found Surefire Procom to be quite good on an AR 10 for reducing felt recoil & it did not affect accuracy.

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