G&R Tactical
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Thread: Vehicle tactics classes

  1. #11
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    Where are all of these shooting-through-windshield incidents taking place? There are 14.5 million CCW permit holders in the U.S., and yet I don't see a lot of civilians shooting out of their cars windshields or shooting into windshields (as sure as I typed that, someone will link to a few. That's fine.)

    It should be fairly low on your list of training priorities.

  2. #12
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    I think that would depend on your perspective. Officers are sometimes victims of 'Sudden Assault Immediately Upon Stop' (my term) and should know how to manipulate the sidearm in the unit, and engage through the windshield and side windows.

    Obviously, there are other things you can do to counter and reduce the success of such an event, I developed vehicle stop protocol which specifically addressed the top five causes of assaults with injury, but let me tell, cops are loathe to change.

    I would teach civilians to engage through side windows before windshields, but in reality, drills on weapon handling while buckled in go a long way in developing the mindset.
    Last edited by 26 Inf; 05-19-17 at 21:45.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    I think that would depend on your perspective. Officers are sometimes victims of 'Sudden Assault Immediately Upon Stop' (my term) and should know how to manipulate the sidearm in the unit, and engage through the windshield and side windows.

    Obviously, there are other things you can do to counter and reduce the success of such an event, I developed vehicle stop protocol which specifically addressed the top five causes of assaults with injury, but let me tell, cops are loathe to change.

    t.
    The OP premise was whether or not civilians needed a vechicle tactic class. Some unnamed trainer said no. I tend to agree.

    Cops doing felony traffic stops definitely need to train for shootings inside and around vehicles. No disagreement there.

    I say taking one of those classes is low priority for the average CCW permit holder, especially the obligatory shooting through windshield that is conducted at theses classes. More people than every are carrying concealed (non-LEOs), and I just don't hear about the need to shoot from your vehicle.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by comprido View Post
    The OP premise was whether or not civilians needed a vechicle tactic class. Some unnamed trainer said no. I tend to agree.

    Cops doing felony traffic stops definitely need to train for shootings inside and around vehicles. No disagreement there.

    I say taking one of those classes is low priority for the average CCW permit holder, especially the obligatory shooting through windshield that is conducted at theses classes. More people than every are carrying concealed (non-LEOs), and I just don't hear about the need to shoot from your vehicle.
    IF you can not run through an intersection and drive away, IF you are pinned by traffic and they are coming alongside your vehicle, that (engaging from seated in the vehicle) may be the most viable option.

    This is why I said with civilians I would focus on weapon handling and side windows first.

    Also, as I mentioned, it is a mindset thing, I'd say there is a good possibility one of the reasons you haven't heard about civilians shooting from vehicles is that they have not be indoctrinated/trained to do so.

    Dry reps and airsoft/paintball may be just the ticket. I do agree that some courses contain a lot of 'vanity' training, but I would be loath to save shooting from a vehicle is 'vanity' training, assuming the student is competent enough for the training to be of actual use.

    JMO.

  5. #15
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    This whole gun forum is populated by people who and train and practice, equip themselves, and fantasize about civilian scenarios that are vanishingly unlikely to occur in their daily lives. I think it's hilarious for anyone here to deride any particular training course because that particular scenario is unlikely to happen. It's all unlikely to happen. Armed self defense might be a useful skill some day for some people, but for the vast majority of civilians here, it's mostly just indulging a hobby. Golf is boring. The vehicle course I took with Dave Spaulding was interesting and fun. That's as far as I need to chew on the rationale.
    Last edited by Hmac; 05-20-17 at 23:20.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    This whole gun forum is populated by people who and train and practice, equip themselves, and fantasize about civilian scenarios that are vanishingly unlikely to occur in their daily lives. I think it's hilarious for anyone here to deride any particular training course because that particular scenario is unlikely to happen. It's all unlikely to happen. Armed self defense might be a useful skill some day for some people, but for the vast majority of civilians here, it's mostly just indulging a hobby. Golf is boring. The vehicle course I took with Dave Spaulding was interesting and fun. That's as far as I need to chew on the rationale.
    I agree with you in substance. Some folks live in areas where carjackings are not uncommon. So in those circumstances they might be wise to think about tactics, both with the vehicle, and with the firearm.

    When I was doing patrol work as an officer I knew the likelihood of me walking in on an armed robbery at a convenience store was not likely, nonetheless, I made it a habit to drive by to check the location and circle the block to come in from the side when stopping for a coke. I still park as far to the left or right of the entrance as I can, once you have the script running in your head, it becomes second nature.

    I'm sure you do similar things in surgery because they are the smart things to do.

    Off topic, do you have a new dog pal? I went a month or so after Jayce died and got me a GSD male puppy. Very personable dog and he gets along well with my wife's Lab, She (the Lab not my wife) simply lays down on him when she's tired of his crap. That won't be going on much longer, though, he is growing fast.

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