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Thread: HST still the go to for most the 9mm guys?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    You are talking about current gen from the big names, right? Because some of the older designs are just junk in denim and barrier tests.
    You say that as if the old gen stuff didn't put people down. While the new stuff is designed to work better it doesn't mean the old stuff didn't work. My point is the OP asked if HST was still a viable option and my point is that even if new options have come along that wouldn't suddenly make previous options ineffective.

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  2. #62
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    You are mixing two ideas.
    1. No, older designs that don't expand or meet minimum penetration did not perform consistently well. Federal still sells hi-shock as defensive ammo for example.

    2. Yes, you are correct to say chasing the latest and greatest is not worth it if you currently have something on the list.

  3. #63
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    The PD I used to work for issued HST in 9,40, and 45. I still carry the 147 grn in 9mm, and the 230 when I feel old fashioned and carry my 1911. One real world story: bad guy in a car, caller stated he had a gun. Responding units car jammed him in a parking lot, and he started to ram police vehicles trying to get out. One officer found himself between the suspect car and another parked car, and felt he was going to get crushed. He fired one round 147 grn HST out of a Sig P226. Round penetrated the rear passenger side door, went into the back of the driver seat at an angle, and into the driver. He later died at the hospital. Not bad for a lowly 9mm.

  4. #64
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    I hope HST still works, because I just bought another 500 rounds of it to add to my stash.

  5. #65
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    I bought a bag of mixed pulled 9mm bullets from American Reloading awhile back. After sorting, I ended up with a few 147gr premium hollowpoint bullets. Curious about how these various bullets might perform at slightly higher than average speed I figured I'd I load these with Viht 3N38 using data listed on the Vihtavouri website.

    First off, the published charge fills the case almost all the way. There isn't much room to seat bullets so I ended up with overall lengths in the 1.145" area. These might be slightly long (factory Gold Dot is 1.13") but it shouldn't be anything that'll cause an issue. I loaded four 147gr Federal HST, four Hornady XTP and four Speer Gold Dot using FC cases and CCI primers. This morning I fired for velocity and also fired two rounds of each into 10% gel from Clear Ballistics with the following results:

    USP 9mm 4.25" barrel:


    XTP avg 1,113fps with a high of 1,115 and a low of 1,111. One bullet penetrated 12" while the other went 17".

    Gold Dot avg 1,115fps (chrono missed 2nd bullet) with penetration of 13" and 14"

    HST avg 1,109.50fps with a high of 1,120 and a low of 1,099. Penetration was right about 14" for both.

    Recoil was fairly stout but primers seem fine, etc. Velocities weren't as high as those listed in the Viht data but I assume much of that's based on barrel length.


    And, for comparison, here are velocities from a SIG P320C. No gel data for these, just velocity:


    147 XTP avg 1,076.50fps with a high of 1,079 and a low of 1,074.

    147 Gold Dot avg 1,060fps. High 1,061 and low of 1,059.

    147 HST avg 1,102fps. High 1,106 and 1,098 low.

    Recovered bullets placed largest to smallest. The HST came out about 0.72in. The Gold Dots are close behind at about 0.65in and the XTP came out about 0.60in. The HST and Gold Dot appear to have retained 100% weight as did one XTP. The other XTP is now showing 139.8gr.

    Overall, not too shabby.

    Factory loads producing similar results can be obtained from Underwood. Underwood offers a +P 147 XTP as well as a +P+ 147 Gold Dot. If the HST is your preference Federal does offer a 147 +P load using that bullet.




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  6. #66
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    I still have the infamous non-listed 124 grain standard pressure HST for my "top shelf" 9mm round. I decided on that several years back and have stuck with it. I was mostly researching .45 ACP, which is my favored handgun caliber, and saw that the .45 HSTs performed very well. I think I jumped into the 9mm HSTs very quickly based on that research without as much 9mm-specific research as I should have done (not sure if the FBI list was well publicized then or if I overlooked it) ... but for what it's worth, my logic was that while that "+p" is what everyone likes to see, a standard pressure load would be better for purposes muzzle jump and controlability on follow up shots.

    Now that I see that there actually is a tangible performance benefit to the +p load, I'm rethinking my decision, but I do note that the controlability factor is almost never part of these discussions. I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on whether it is a factor in choosing among any of these loads.

  7. #67
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    I suppose the case could be made that terminal performance should outweigh considerations for recoil. Especially when talking about a 9mm. Some of the + P loads do generate more recoil, obviously, but even then the 9mm is more controllable than something chambered in 40 Smith & Wesson or 45.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokarev View Post
    I suppose the case could be made that terminal performance should outweigh considerations for recoil. Especially when talking about a 9mm. Some of the + P loads do generate more recoil, obviously, but even then the 9mm is more controllable than something chambered in 40 Smith & Wesson or 45.

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
    Yeah, to some degree that is exactly the theory that I subscribe to, as I prefer a .45 as my HD gun due to the fact that while I can control a 9mm better for rapid follow up shots, I can control the .45 just fine and assuming a shot is on target, I'd rather have the terminal performance of the .45 than any 9mm ... but this thinking is also tailored to the context of how I use my .45, which is for HD in a small apartment where any home invasion type scenario would be a very close quarters affair where (1) I should be able to shoot accurately in those distances and (2) there probably wouldn't be time for many follow up shots and I would need to end the threat very quickly. I guess I think of my 9mm more as something that I would have out in space so I think more about putting more rounds on target ... and maybe I don't put enough faith in 9mm, but I still regard it as a caliber where more than one round may be needed to do the job -- so I think more about two rounds on target vs. one hit and one miss.

  9. #69
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    After as extensive testing as I could afford. I bought a boat load of HST .380, 9mm and .45 eight years ago. Excellent reliability (not a single fail), accuracy, penetration and expansion in all 3 calibers. I see no need to change I have no doubt they will do the job.

  10. #70
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    When I carry a 9mm, I use Federal Tactical Bonded 135gr.+P. LE9T5
    US NAVY
    1961-1965

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