HST still the go to for most the 9mm guys?

[1168]

... and maybe I don't put enough faith in 9mm, but I still regard it as a caliber where more than one round may be needed to do the job --

Instant one shot incapacitation:

Physiologically, the only way to reliably produce this effect with a pistol is to put a hole in the brain or spinal cord. Caliber does not appear to matter, within reason, as long as it can reach and penetrate those areas.

Psychologically, instant one shot incapacitation is unreliable, but also seems to be independent of caliber.

If we eliminate the instant and single shot part, more shots faster looks better by my math. There continues to be no evidence showing that .45 drops crappy people faster than 9mm.

Plan on using more than one round. Caliber seems to be the least important factor in the outcome of a pistol fight.

[Glock9mm1990]

I have yet to see anything new that outperforms the Federal HST or the Speer Gold Dot so those are what I stick with for carry in ether 124gr +p or 147gr/147gr +p.

[LMT/556]

Instant one shot incapacitation:

Physiologically, the only way to reliably produce this effect with a pistol is to put a hole in the brain or spinal cord. Caliber does not appear to matter, within reason, as long as it can reach and penetrate those areas.

Psychologically, instant one shot incapacitation is unreliable, but also seems to be independent of caliber.

If we eliminate the instant and single shot part, more shots faster looks better by my math. There continues to be no evidence showing that .45 drops crappy people faster than 9mm.

Plan on using more than one round. Caliber seems to be the least important factor in the outcome of a pistol fight.

http://emptormaven.com/2013/02/the-obsolete-45-acp/

The gel shot says it all...

[LDB]

I’m interested in the new Golden Saber Black Belt.

[flenna]

http://emptormaven.com/2013/02/the-obsolete-45-acp/

Ok, but making bigger holes cannot be a bad thing.

[LMT/556]

Pretty much all modern rounds like HST or gold dots behave the same regardless of caliber, therefore higher round count and lower recoil for quicker follow up shots wins. That's the premise. Massad Ayoob advocated .45 in Nazi states that limit round capacity to 10 (or less).

The only outliers might be 10mm or .357 sig for penetration (bear country, windshields, etc).

[wahoo95]

Instant one shot incapacitation:

Physiologically, the only way to reliably produce this effect with a pistol is to put a hole in the brain or spinal cord. Caliber does not appear to matter, within reason, as long as it can reach and penetrate those areas.

Psychologically, instant one shot incapacitation is unreliable, but also seems to be independent of caliber.

If we eliminate the instant and single shot part, more shots faster looks better by my math. There continues to be no evidence showing that .45 drops crappy people faster than 9mm.

Plan on using more than one round. Caliber seems to be the least important factor in the outcome of a pistol fight.

This response mirrors what I've heard from the current and past medical examiner of a large metro city who both choose and recommend 9mm for these reasons.

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[Straight Shooter]

I believe in both the HST round & the .45ACP that I just got 150 rounds in of 230gr. HST. Could NOT care less about internet lore and/or opinion. Ive seen what it can do...been shooting...45's!... since late Seventies, its an awesome round that CAN be shot fast, with practice, and its track record is without question, in my mind. THAT said, I still carry a G19 with either +P HST or GoldDots in 124gr. All this badmouthing the .45 of late is a bunch of BULLSHIT.
Edited for clarity.

[wahoo95]

I believe in both the HST round & the .45ACP that I just got 150 rounds in of 230gr. HST. Could NOT care less about internet lore and/or opinion. Ive seen what it can do...been shooting it since late Seventies, its an awesome round that CAN be shot fast, with practice, and its track record is without question, in my mind. THAT said, I still carry a G19 with either +P HST or GoldDots in 124gr. All this badmouthing the .45 of late is a bunch of BULLSHIT.

You've been shooting HST since the 70's?

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[mr h]

Instant one shot incapacitation:

Physiologically, the only way to reliably produce this effect with a pistol is to put a hole in the brain or spinal cord. Caliber does not appear to matter, within reason, as long as it can reach and penetrate those areas.

Psychologically, instant one shot incapacitation is unreliable, but also seems to be independent of caliber.

If we eliminate the instant and single shot part, more shots faster looks better by my math. There continues to be no evidence showing that .45 drops crappy people faster than 9mm.

Plan on using more than one round. Caliber seems to be the least important factor in the outcome of a pistol fight.

i was out shooting with a buddy and his long time friend and recently retired "navy door kicker professional" came along. when we talked tactics and technique, he always stressed the double tap for rifles and pistols.

i'll take that as a professional piece of advice.