Now that everyone is going back to 9mm, what's the street results?

[Dump1567]

I just read the 2017 Glock Annual and a lot of LEO Agencies are going back to 9mm based on the FBI's testing (and other factors). The theory being with modern bullet design, there's no difference between 9mm, .40 & .45 anymore. I'm having a hard time believing this myself and would really like some convincing.

Is this being proven in the real world in actual shootings? Is the modern 9mm bullet design getting it done without complaints from those that use to rely on .40 & .45?

I'm trying to re-train my brain from the "bigger is better" concept.

Thanks for any info. on the subject.

[Pilot1]

I have a sneaking suspicion they are going "back" to 9MM so people (women) of smaller stature can handle the felt recoil better, and qualify more easily.

[turnburglar]

I always laugh when people tell me how superior other handgun calibers are too 9mm. If you really feel that .005 of an inch is the difference between dead bad guy and alive bad guy, you haven't seen enough people shot. If 9mm isn't getting the job done you needed a rifle to begin with.

Mag capacity and shot placement are what wins gun fights. And too top it off modern 9mm expands more than half and inch.

[WS6]

I have a sneaking suspicion they are going "back" to 9MM so people (women) of smaller stature can handle the felt recoil better, and qualify more easily.

That's not why any of the people I know who killed people for a living and are now police officers use it. It works just fine (expands well, penetrates AG just fine and still punches 12"+ gel, etc.), shot placement with a handgun trumps all, and you get more shots. What's not to like?

[MegademiC]

Real world shootings with good loads (147gr hst, gold dot, ranger t, and 124gr +p of all, and re pressure of the gold dot), have performed very similar to 4 layer denim gel test. They work. The issue was not size, it was penetration, staying intact, and failing to open up. Once you open up, the actual size ( by itself, not including effects on penetration), is really not a big factor. More rounds on target is a real advantage.

[mark5pt56]

Some time ago when a large eastern seaboard city changed handguns, the caliber came up. The ME was consulted with all shootings including from bad guys and the .40 or .45 offered zero advantage to the 9mm load utilized. FBI protocol testing had already been done and the 127+p+ stayed. NYPD and the 124 +p GD does a fine job as well.

[Pilot1]

That's not why any of the people I know who killed people for a living and are now police officers use it. It works just fine (expands well, penetrates AG just fine and still punches 12"+ gel, etc.), shot placement with a handgun trumps all, and you get more shots. What's not to like?

I have been shooting 9MM for over 25 years, as well as .45ACP. I never went with the .40 S&W trend, and have many more 9MM's than .45 as it is my main caliber. I have confidence in the 9MM, and my ability with it, and glad to see the improvements in defense ammo over the years. My previous comment meant that many agencies do things for other reasons than effectiveness.

[WS6]

[QUOTE=Pilot1;2493577]

That's not why any of the people I know who killed people for a living and are now police officers use it. It works just fine (expands well, penetrates AG just fine and still punches 12"+ gel, etc.), shot placement with a handgun trumps all, and you get more shots. What's not to like?[/QUOTE

I have been shooting 9MM for over 25 years, as well as .45ACP. I never went with the .40 S&W trend, and have many more 9MM's than .45 as it is my main caliber. I have confidence in the 9MM, and my ability with it, and glad to see the improvements in defense ammo over the years. My previous comment meant that many agencies do things for other reasons than effectiveness.

Well then look at training budget. Officer shoots x% more with x% cheaper ammo that's just as good as = winning

[BufordTJustice]

My agency still issues Glock 21 gen4's with 200gr +P Good Dots. I've been involved in several OIS's, and have killed several hogs with both.

I'd be in terrible trouble if I had to tell the difference between them based purely on how the target behaved after being struck.

EDIT: with my current role being covert, I carry concealed in plain clothes and my daily carry is my personally owned (but agency certified) Glock G19 gen4 with agency issued 124gr +P Gold Dots. I have as much confidence with this as I do with my duty G21 gen4 mentioned above.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

[diving dave]

I'm retired now, but my old agency had issued Fed. 147 HST in 9mm. I was always a 45 guy, but with alot of recent trends, I'd have no issues going with a 9 if I had to hit the street again. We had a shooting in my old agency, where officer fired one round of 147 HST through the right rear door of a car.( guy was trying to run over other officers to get away..) Round punched through the door, through the driver seat at an angle and into the bad guy...He ended on a slab. Pretty good performance for a 9mm. Once and awhile I still get nostalgic and carry my 1911, but for the most part its a SW M&P 9 with those 147's.