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Thread: survival German shepard dogs

  1. #1
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    survival German shepard dogs

    https://m.liveleak.com/view?i=70b_1494763303

    I have spent the past week with a German Shepherd and I am pretty inpressed. the gs has entered my survival plan. i am not gettin younger & the extra abilities a gs has might be worth having around. the fella getting chewed in the vid probably wouldn't argue about the attack capabilities of a gs. i hear the gs has hip problems at an early age, is this a real issue?

  2. #2
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    GSD's (German Shepherd Dogs) can, like a lot of mid to large breeds have hip issues, it is a known possibility. HOWEVER, it is NOT the rule and does not have to be accepted as just a risk of having a GSD. Like Labs for instance they can get bad hips as they age and in some instances even fairly young IF unacceptable dogs were bred, perpetuating genetic flaws pre-disposing a line to orthopedic problems like hips and elbows.

    If you start to really research into GSD's, which you should before jumping in (for a long list of reasons), you will find reference to "backyard breeders". These are the folks that stumbled into getting a GSD, liked it, never got it spayed, and then said, "hey I can get her knocked up and sell the pups for like $400 each. Lets find a stud!" Then they find the first pointy eared male they can and throw them in the backyard together, file the papers with AKC, and voila you have "pure-bred" GSD's. No one checked the female for her predisposition for hip dysplasia or elbow issues. No one considered what kind of lines she or he came from: show or working lines. No one stopped to think what the temperment and personality characteristics were of the breeding pair--are they confident, courageous, and driven animals that have patience with small people and a desire to work? Or, are these two dogs timid, easily intimdated, unsure in various environments and stimuli, and have unstable temperments? So, what you get is a grab-bag of genetic characteristics that make a watered-down Shepherd that may or may not have the physical resilience, mental capacity, or temperment to be a safe and functional GSD in the manner they are intended to be. On the other hand, in your research you will start to find there is a whole world of GSD breeding that is responsible, well planned, and well selected to perpetuate the characteristics that this GREAT breed is supposed to personify. Using broad heuristics to dichotomize the conversation there are show lines and working lines. That means decades and decades ago at one point a bunch of breeders started to select for different physical and mental characteristics based on what they were doing with their dogs and their breeding programs. The show lines, in general (there are always exceptions to anything) was an American thing. There are distinct physical, structural differences in a show-line bred GSD than the working lines. Most noticeably is the slope of the back from front to back--show lines are sloped downward and working lines are flat (again, these are broad strokes). If your interest is piqued in GSD's as part of your preparedness and security plan then you have no business entertaining the idea of a show line bred GSD. You want a well bred working line Shepherd.

    If you think you want a dog that can be trained to perform defensive work, bite work, then you have to be very thoughtful and diligent in selecting a breeder/pedigree that will consistently produce a dog with the structure to handle it, and perhaps more importantly, the mind and drives to be able to participate in the training and perform the work. This means they have to want to, they have to be controllable, they have to be bold and have courage. Wonderfully, these select animals usually have wonderful temperments that are incredible with children and even other animals as long as the other animals pose no threat to "their people".

    GSD's are amazing dogs. I grew up with Golden Retrievers and labs. But, as an adult I became interested in the defensive posture that a GSD would offer my family. I got a GSD and by luck really stumbled into one with all these characteristics I've described, although he did not have formal bite work training he had the pedigree genetics. All the drives and mental characteristics were there and it made having him as a pet an entirely different experience than the retrievers of my youth. It was AWESOME. He was my best buddy and he loved my children and on more than one occasion was responsible for keeping me and my kids safe from aggressive and uncontrolled pitbulls in the neighborhood by appropriately engaging them in the right moment. He had no formal bite training but had incredible judge of human character and made several questionable dudes reroute their paths and patterns just by his posture and presence. I have become mildly obsessed since. Sadly, Shark has passed on and we have not been in the position to get another one as of yet. But I assure you that I will have another dog because I am a dog guy, and I am only interested in having a GSD now. But I will be very selective of the source and attributes he has.

    That is a long answer to a short question, but its a real interest of mine. All of this said I have to say very clearly that I'm not a SME on GSD's and working dogs. There are some dudes on this site with some serious knowledge and experience in working K9 breeds. I'm a low level novice but I was the first to the discussion so I thought I'd lay out some basics. This sub-forum has a long thread about SHTF dogs. The guys around here with a lot of experience posted some good stuff there. I posted some pics and experiences with my boy too. It would be worth a read through.

    As a conclusion, I would like to say that I'm not trying to discourage you, actually I encourage you to pursue this. But do some reading to find out if you want to be as committed to being a dog owner as a GSD requires. And secondly, if you are you need to be willing to find thoughtfully bred GSD's. And thirdly, you need to be willing to pay for this. An AKC paper isn't a guarantee of quality. You don't have to spend $10k+ (yes, you can spend this and FAR FAR FAR more on well bred and trained GSD's) to get a great, sound GSD that will be a delightful pet and partner. Decide what you realistically want from your GSD and then do a ton of research and find the animal that fits that. You may not want or need all the firepower of a dog capable of military or police service. There is a huge spectrum of what they are capable of, find where you need to be and seek it out. Just don't compromise on the physical health and structure and baseline temperment characteristics. Breeders should be able to show you proof of the dam and sire's hip and even elbow health and at least brag about their lines orthopedic health in the past.

    ETA: I just watched that link and I don't know what the hell that is all about. There is no context for that attack. It could be hero work or it could be very inappropriate on the GSD's part. I wouldn't call that vid a shining showcase of what a GSD can do for an owner/handler. If you want to see the high end, the high class working capabilities of GSD's check out this link: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...gIfxrEbEvCa-RP, this dog was listed for sale at $100,000 and sold recently. That is one extreme.
    "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it." Thomas Paine

  3. #3
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    68W has given you a basic outline, this is not something to enter into lightly.


    For the dog, and for you.


    Here are my $0.02 and also as a novice, that has owned a GSD for 51 years:

    How much time can/will you be able to spend with the dog EVERY day?

    Are you in for what could possibly be a 15+year commitment?

    Have you been around a "hard" dog, and do you realize the responsibilities you assume with ownership?

    Read everything you can, from as many places (that are worth a shit) and sources.


    Regarding a specific dog:

    For a nothing special pup, you could spend $3k, and remember, puppies are a crapshoot. Parents matter, further away means shit.

    Never get in a hurry.

    Never get in a hurry.

    A pink papered 2 y/o import with at least an IPO 1 title could cost you $10k, by the time the dog gets here. Air fair and a crate from Stuttgart ran me 1500 Euros last year, so there's that.

    One video really shows only what the seller wants to highlight, won't show any problems. Ask to see MANY videos. People videoe everything today, there are really no excuses.

    Never send monies to Russia, Egypt, Serbia, Timbuktu. You will never see it again.

    If you buy from someone who does this as their principle source of income, understand where they are coming from, good and bad.

    Never get in a hurry.

    It's the training you will pay for. I don't do my own dentistry, a pro trainer can be amazing and worth his or her weight.

    Working-lines, show-lines blur, it's the specific dog that you are interested in. A buddy in the next town just got a new unit, ****er won't bite. They are out a lot.


    Why would one endure this hi-dee-ho?

    A quality GSD can easily give you a decade of complete and total devotion.

    A quality GSD is, to my mind, hard to match, when checking all of the boxes.

    A quality GSD is an incredible asset to any home/business/security interest that understands the dog's limits/capabilities.


    Speak with members of a local group, the internet allows you to see as many dogs an hour, would have been a week in a rental car just 15 years ago.



    You can get a good dog in the U.S., you can get a good dog from Germany. I like my dogs pink papered, there are 4 pages, know what the stamps mean, like this:

    pinkpapers.jpg


    Here's a link: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com


    Read this:http://www.vonlotta.com/definitions.html

    Look at this, Susie knows her shit, some people don't like her, she is very strict, and she is correct 99% of the time:http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/comm...pink-paper-gsd



    If a titled dog, scores in the mid to high 90s.

    ZW score should be as low as possible. 100 is meh, my #1 male is 74, my bitch is 78. But never forget that little prankster called genetics.



    My dogs are with me 20 hours a day. Just the way it is.

    My latest male was a new kitchen remodel. Woof.

    My latest bitch was basically two new baths. Woof. Woof.

    I make their dinner myself, every night. I'm not talking canned paste. Tonight beef kidneys, last night beef hearts, tomorrow chicken. I cook their dinners before we go out.

    Their coats are amazing.

    Twice in the last month, savory folks approaching my vehicle (bums, panhandling) were turned around from 25 yards away. Sort of like a quick 20 from a 240B.

    I never worry about my wife or my dot. No, I always worry, I just worry a lot less.




    Op, Good Luck.

    Remember, a GSD is, in many ways, as large a responsibility as the ownership of a firearm.


    But the rewards can be indescribable.

    Oh yeah, pics:

    My #1 male, IPO I, KKL, son of Schumann von Tronje

    6s9a4113.jpg

    Terrible pic of my IPO 3 male

    DSC_0050.jpg

    One of my males airing it out

    DSC_0159.jpg

    An IPO II bitch saying no

    DSC_0513.jpg
    Last edited by Spin Drift; 05-20-17 at 22:07.

  4. #4
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    68W has some valid points, but it isn't just the backyard breeders. Even if you buy a dog from a reputable breeder, understand that a big portion of why dogs suffer from hip dysplasia is due to the various kennel clubs (AKC and others) promoting "frog dog" confirmation. Here's a link concerning a champion dog that illustrates the issue: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6931291.html. Kennel clubs often wreck havoc with a breed's working capabilities for appearance sake. Not just the German Shepherd. Many other breeds have suffered to the point some breed clubs don't want their dogs recognized.

    At any rate, make sure the dog's parents are screened for likely diseases such as hip and elbow dysplasia (Penn Hip or OFA), and know whether the parents, and if possible grandparents, suffered from a variety of other ailments such as Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA), Von Willebrand's Disease (vWD), Degenerative Myelopathy, Perianal fistula, etc. Here's another couple of quick links that get to the point WRT conformation: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites...-vs-2015.aspx; http://www.angesgardiens.ca/ANG/Health.htm.
    Last edited by brushy bill; 05-20-17 at 22:45.

  5. #5
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    I "hear" it is easier to get a quality Belgian Malinois, than a German Shepherd due to over breeding, and that they have similar characteristics as a working dog. I was on a flight back to Denver once, and two FEMA officers (both female) had their Malinois with them in the cabin, and sat next to me. The dogs were very well behaved, and were working cadaver dogs, being taken to a training exercise.

    I am more of a sporting dog person, as I like to bird hunt, and have always had German Shorthaired Pointers which I have also found to be good pets.

  6. #6
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    Great information everyone, thank you.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Drift View Post
    68W has given you a basic outline, this is not something to enter into lightly.


    For the dog, and for you.


    Here are my $0.02 and also as a novice, that has owned a GSD for 51 years:

    How much time can/will you be able to spend with the dog EVERY day?

    Are you in for what could possibly be a 15+year commitment?

    Have you been around a "hard" dog, and do you realize the responsibilities you assume with ownership?

    Read everything you can, from as many places (that are worth a shit) and sources.


    Regarding a specific dog:

    For a nothing special pup, you could spend $3k, and remember, puppies are a crapshoot. Parents matter, further away means shit.

    Never get in a hurry.

    Never get in a hurry.

    A pink papered 2 y/o import with at least an IPO 1 title could cost you $10k, by the time the dog gets here. Air fair and a crate from Stuttgart ran me 1500 Euros last year, so there's that.

    One video really shows only what the seller wants to highlight, won't show any problems. Ask to see MANY videos. People videoe everything today, there are really no excuses.

    Never send monies to Russia, Egypt, Serbia, Timbuktu. You will never see it again.

    If you buy from someone who does this as their principle source of income, understand where they are coming from, good and bad.

    Never get in a hurry.

    It's the training you will pay for. I don't do my own dentistry, a pro trainer can be amazing and worth his or her weight.

    Working-lines, show-lines blur, it's the specific dog that you are interested in. A buddy in the next town just got a new unit, ****er won't bite. They are out a lot.


    Why would one endure this hi-dee-ho?

    A quality GSD can easily give you a decade of complete and total devotion.

    A quality GSD is, to my mind, hard to match, when checking all of the boxes.

    A quality GSD is an incredible asset to any home/business/security interest that understands the dog's limits/capabilities.


    Speak with members of a local group, the internet allows you to see as many dogs an hour, would have been a week in a rental car just 15 years ago.



    You can get a good dog in the U.S., you can get a good dog from Germany. I like my dogs pink papered, there are 4 pages, know what the stamps mean, like this:

    pinkpapers.jpg


    Here's a link: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com


    Read this:http://www.vonlotta.com/definitions.html

    Look at this, Susie knows her shit, some people don't like her, she is very strict, and she is correct 99% of the time:http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/comm...pink-paper-gsd



    If a titled dog, scores in the mid to high 90s.

    ZW score should be as low as possible. 100 is meh, my #1 male is 74, my bitch is 78. But never forget that little prankster called genetics.



    My dogs are with me 20 hours a day. Just the way it is.

    My latest male was a new kitchen remodel. Woof.

    My latest bitch was basically two new baths. Woof. Woof.

    I make their dinner myself, every night. I'm not talking canned paste. Tonight beef kidneys, last night beef hearts, tomorrow chicken. I cook their dinners before we go out.

    Their coats are amazing.

    Twice in the last month, savory folks approaching my vehicle (bums, panhandling) were turned around from 25 yards away. Sort of like a quick 20 from a 240B.

    I never worry about my wife or my dot. No, I always worry, I just worry a lot less.




    Op, Good Luck.

    Remember, a GSD is, in many ways, as large a responsibility as the ownership of a firearm.


    But the rewards can be indescribable.

    Oh yeah, pics:

    My #1 male, IPO I, KKL, son of Schumann von Tronje

    6s9a4113.jpg

    Terrible pic of my IPO 3 male

    DSC_0050.jpg

    One of my males airing it out

    DSC_0159.jpg

    An IPO II bitch saying no

    DSC_0513.jpg
    thanks a lot man, i will keep all these in mind, thanks guy for all the info....we got some Dog lover over here...wew.

  8. #8
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    This will keep you busy:

    https://us.working-dog.com/breed/overview

    Good Luck

  9. #9
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    I told you there were some dudes with a ton of experience in working GSD's. My knowledge and experience is, like, nada in comparison to these guys that have titled and intensively trained with there incredible animals. My career and lifestyle won't allow for that level of GSD performance. But like I said it doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can have a phenomenal companion GSD also. And that dog will be 100% devoted to you. Just can't expect every GSD to be capable of biting AND letting go at the drop of a word.

    As far as mallinois vs GSD...they are very different, I think you have to really look at their typical characteristics, remember there are exceptions to every rule and decide if a mallinois could fit your bill. Them Mal' sumbitches are athletic animals, man can they run and jump.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it." Thomas Paine

  10. #10
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    Our GS is 8 yrs old and still not having any hip issues, he is a little bigger than most GS we've seen being 130lb dog. Very good around kids, not a barker like some dogs but when he does everyone turns to look.

    Our vet says he's too heavy and that we feed him too much, here is a pick from last fall with our 2 yr old. No fat at all on him, he's just tall!

    14955836_10154644227840786_5322796944677804707_n.jpg
    Last edited by hdrolling; 05-29-17 at 14:42.
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