Which Free Float Foregrip?

[Robb Jensen]

Here are my top 3 in order:

3. LaRue Tactical
2. LaRue Tactical


and #1- LaRue Tactical


That sums it up.

I didn't ask the peanut gallery....

FWIW LaRue rails are very nice, but IMHO I'm used both LaRue and DD and prefer DD Lite Rails and better yet the excellent DD RIS II rails to everything.

[docsherm]

I didn't ask the peanut gallery....

FWIW LaRue rails are very nice, but IMHO I'm used both LaRue and DD and prefer DD Lite Rails and better yet the excellent DD RIS II rails to everything.

I have used DD and LaRue ( my WIFE has one on her M4 ) and I feel like more of a man with my LaRue.



You could ask 100 people what they like and get 100 different answers. The bet thing is what you feel works the best for you.

[Robb Jensen]

I have used DD and LaRue ( my WIFE has one on her M4 ) and I feel like more of a man with my LaRue.



You could ask 100 people what they like and get 100 different answers. The bet thing is what you feel works the best for you.

Cool. My wife owns 2 LaRue rails herself. I built her 11.5" SBR with a 9" LaRue and John Noveske built her Afghan using a 12" LaRue.....Noveske no longer uses LaRue.

Still my favorite is the DD RIS II Mk18 rails, I can see why they're used on the Gov't contract.

[abock33]

[QUOTE=gotm4;225586]......
My 3gun rifle with a JP/VTAC tube.


...

This it the setup that I'm thinking about. light and simple.

Any particular reason why the DD Omega vs The JP/VTAC?

I ask because the Omega is a great rail but since it's using the stock/OEM barrel nut, delta ring, weld spring and snap ring it's a weird comparison to the VTAC. I would consider the Daniel Defense Lite Rail to a better comparison of the JP/VTAC. The VTAC is a great FF tube, but I wouldn't mount much on it in the way of weight. The only thing I have on mine is a Daniel Defense QD sling swivel and a JP close range sight. It's also pretty cheap compared to a rail. The VTAC uses it's own barrel nut as does a Lite Rail.

to answer your question. my original thought was to get the DD Omega for the easy set up. I really don't want a rail but it required no gunsmithing to get the barrel free floating. I like the VTAC for it's simplicity and the fact that you can add rails on as needed. As for gunsmithing I don't really mind taking the front sight off. I'm going to go with the VTAC. Thanks for the input, and the fast response. I like this sight A whole lot more than that other sight.

[Olav]

Okay I'll play.
If you want the fund the testing I'll be sure to do it.


VTAC = 7 screws. Which are about 3/16" long and about 1/8" in diameter.
DD Lite rail = 6 screws. Which are about 1" long and about 1/4" in diameter.

Which do you think are stronger?
I think you need a THC test if you think the smaller 7 screws of the JP/VTAC are 'as strong' as a DD Lite Rails 6 much larger screws.

Not to get into an argument but I'd just like to add this.

The seven screws are perpendicular to the to the axis of the rifle.

While the 6 large screws are parallel to the axis of the rifle.

The shear forces generated by the DD rail on the screws are much greater as they bear the load at the interface that is why they are so big.




On the other hand the shear forces on the VTAC are much less on the screws (they're not load bearing) because of the inherent stability of the flange/sleeve design and the seven screws are stablizers and provide rotational rigidity and provide a solid mating surface to the tube and sleeve. The sleeve provides 360 degree interface to distribute any load stress. As you can see the sleeve is longer than the DD screws and much stronger and contiguous.








It's not the size of the screws that matters it's the over-all design.

As for paying for a test, you were the one bringing up unsubstantiated claims and I just was asking for evidence to your claims.


Like I said, I'd just like to keep this civil and am pointing out the design aspects that lead to strength not the components that give the overt appearance to strength.

[Robb Jensen]

What is your frame of reference?
How many Lite Rails do you have direct experience with (installed and/or used)?
How many JP and JP/VTAC FF tube do you have direct experience with (installed and/or used)?

My frame of reference:
I've been shooting for 33yrs, working on ARs since 1985 and certified to do so since 2005 (wasn't in the guns business before that).
I've installed well over 40 JP/VTAC tubes and have had 2 tubes come loose.
I've installed at least 80 Lite Rails and never had a single one come loose.
I've used several JP tubes myself.
I work for the 3rd or 4th busiest gun shop in VA and work on several ARs everyday.
I've seen over 100 JP and JP/VTAC tubes used in competition. I know about 6 people who've had them come loose (none of these had lights, lasers or foregrips on their guns). Mine came loose when installed per the directions. The directions didn't say to use red loc-tite on the seven screws, but I have found that red loc-tite does hold them securely.

The JP tube is cast/MIM aluminum (whatever the fancy word today is for a casting). The the aluminum flange appears to be machined from a billet piece of aluminum, this gets red-loctited to the receiver threads per the instructions appears to be machined from a billet. It's steel barrel nut is unique in that it's essentially pushing the barrel extension into the receiver and flange. The barrel nut is male threaded into the female threads of the flange. 7 steel screws secure the tube to the flange.

The Daniel Defense rail is made from an extrusion with it's cap welded on. It's flange (like the JP) also appears to be machined from a billet. The Lite Rail has a small barrel nut made of steel that doesn't need to be 'aligned' since the gas tube doesn't pass through any of it's teeth. I torque them to 65-70ft lbs. 6 steel screws pictured above secure the rail to the flange.
My favorite along the same family as the Lite Rail is the even better rail is the RIS II series of rails. These are two piece rails. The top portion is held to the flange by the steel screws. The bottom is retained by 4 or more smaller screws. The top of this rail is made from a solid block of aluminum not an extrusion nor a casting.

I doubt you'll ever see a CAGE code or a NSN for a JP/VTAC FF tube, the DD RIS II rails has both......

We'll have to agree to disagree as to which is better for 'tactical/military/LE' type of use. Enjoy.

[Olav]

Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

Strength. Not Reliability.

From a mechanical engineering perspective the VTAC has a stronger interface attachment design. The seven screws are not load bearing. They just hold in place the sleeve. The original discussion was that the seven screws are weaker and therefore the VTAC is not as robust as the DD. I'm just showing that that is not the case. That's all.

As for reliability that's probably where your experience can help as you stated the screws can come loose for some reason or another and you have to be careful there during assembly. A lot depends on the person putting the hand guard together and there professionalism/experience etc.

I appreciate all your product experience and I definitely don't know everything there is to know about all the various products. I can't argue there...

I don't have any issues with any DD products.

So, I agree with you! We'll just have to agree to disagree on strength.

We'll have to agree to disagree as to which is better for 'tactical/military/LE' type of use. Enjoy.

I don't know what would be better there. That's your dept.

[El Mac]

Interesting points from both perspectives! I learned something.

One thing of note is that a certain SGM from a Tier 1 outfit with loads of experience, attaches his name and company name to the VTac. I doubt he would do that if the VTac was an inherently weak design and prone to failure.

If red loctite is superior, and I'm sure it is, they (JP) should change their instructions to so state.

[DBCooper]

I would really like to get your opinions on the Vltor CASV-EL?

Thanks

DBCooper

[tkosiba]

I used the YHM #9432 rifle customizable free float tube on my latest 6.8 SPC 18" mid-length build, and I'm quite satisfied. Rails can be mounted anywhere. It's has great quality and value in a sleek design.