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Thread: Dissection Of A Match DQ

  1. #1
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    Dissection Of A Match DQ

    All guns are always loaded.

    Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.

    Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

    Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
    While all of above is important, we will concentrate on the bold for this exercise.

    I DQ'ed a very knowledgeable and capable shooter who happens to be a personal friend this past Saturday.

    Long story short, he took 3 unsafe shots (without breaking 180°) that struck a wall beyond the target in an attempt to save 1/2 a second.

    Luckily, the stars were aligned. The wall (railroad ties with gaps) stopped the projectiles and no one was down range on the bay beyond the wall.

    Ultimately the responsibility is 100% on the shooter but a couple things come to mind that should have played out differently;

    Shooter:

    Got a case of "Cardboard Tunnel Vision" and failed to look beyond the target. His desire to shave transition time clouded his thinking.


    Squad Leader/Timer/RSO (Myself):

    As the Timer, I locked my vision on the HG. I rely on my RSO to watch down range impacts. Not seeing impacts is no excuse though. I should've noted the angle of the HG and the shooters position on the stage. Had I made the connection, I could have had him stopped before projectiles 2 & 3 were fired. Shots 2 & 3 were possible due to my failure.

    I did not have my regular RSO this match. I had a couple guys who stepped up to fill in. Moving forward, I will better convey the responsibility of an acting RSO and not assume we're on the same wave length.

    Complacency on my part. I know the shooter. I know his skill level & abilities. Regardless of who the shooter is, I shouldn't have relaxed.


    Other Competitors:

    At no point during the run did anyone yell "Stop". The wall hits were on the first target engaged. A competitor did inform me of the wall impacts before scoring began. As a competitor, a person should not be afraid to speak up when observing a safety issue. Who cares if you hurt some power tripping RSO's feelings. Speak up.


    Stage Design:

    I spoke with the Match Director after the match regarding the stage. He was afraid that someone may attempt the shot and he placed a couple barrels in attempt to block view of the target from an unsafe angle. He made it clear in the safety briefing to not take any unsafe shots. The stage description even stated "Do Not Shoot A Wall".

    If speed is the name of the game (USPSA style scoring), stages should be set up with consideration of shooters taking "Gambler" shots.


    This is my take away anyways. Stay alert and stay safe. Know what's beyond your target.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for sharing this. Just goes to show you can't let your guard down as the shooter, or as the RSO. I hope your friend was understanding about things. It does sound like the stage set him up a bit, but I wasn't there, so I won't judge the folks who were laying out the course of fire. Either way, nobody got hurt, so best possible outcome.
    Last edited by sevenhelmet; 05-22-17 at 21:13.
    "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." -Benjamin Franklin

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    Your friend should be upset with only himself, and should thank you for your decision.

    “We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school.”

    – Thucydides, “History of the Peloponnesian War” (431-404 B.C.)

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    Thanks for sharing such a detailed break down of the incident. It is an excellent reminder of how breaking only one of the four rules, can still lead to disaster. You are better for owning and sharing it.

    I am appreciative of you sharing this, because I had an issue today (totally on me) that could have ended up badly. Luckily, there was no incident. I unknowingly chambered a round, during a demonstration. Not sure if it was ten seconds or a minute later, but a large F-bomb was dropped when I realized the situation. Live ammo being present for a demo was my problem.
    To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society. --Theodore Roosevelt--

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    Wait, did he shoot that stage other than the way it was set out to be shot or in any way engage the targets in an unsafe way? Is this an indoor or outdoor range, if out door the berm is there to catch rounds. I'm a little confused as to why he was disqualified.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by sevenhelmet View Post
    Thanks for sharing this. Just goes to show you can't let your guard down as the shooter, or as the RSO. I hope your friend was understanding about things. It does sound like the stage set him up a bit, but I wasn't there, so I won't judge the folks who were laying out the course of fire. Either way, nobody got hurt, so best possible outcome.
    Usually the targets are closer to a berm which prevents any possible "Aimed At Target Wall Strike". There were a few targets moved further from berm (closer to shooter). I guess to make it easier for the newer people or to promote speed. Unsure of which it was but it caught us slipping.

    It was a good reminder as to why a person should mix up their training/dynamic shooting playlists from time to time.



    Quote Originally Posted by SeriousStudent View Post
    Your friend should be upset with only himself, and should thank you for your decision.

    “We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school.”

    – Thucydides, “History of the Peloponnesian War” (431-404 B.C.)
    He accepted that it was on him very quickly. Oddly, an ominous cloud kind of fell over the squad afterward. Then we brought the pointer on the Operator Gauge a little more off Fun to more centered in the Professional range.


    Quote Originally Posted by TXBK View Post
    Thanks for sharing such a detailed break down of the incident. It is an excellent reminder of how breaking only one of the four rules, can still lead to disaster. You are better for owning and sharing it.

    I am appreciative of you sharing this, because I had an issue today (totally on me) that could have ended up badly. Luckily, there was no incident. I unknowingly chambered a round, during a demonstration. Not sure if it was ten seconds or a minute later, but a large F-bomb was dropped when I realized the situation. Live ammo being present for a demo was my problem.
    I now see it as a lazy lesson. I was too relaxed and complacent. We become accustomed to everything working like it should. We're too "Skilled" for dumb stuff to happen to us.

    I chose to be humbled by my mistakes & accept them while noting the failure. The fluidity of our sport coupled to the ever changing nature of it demands that everyone is a student.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nowski87 View Post
    Wait, did he shoot that stage other than the way it was set out to be shot or in any way engage the targets in an unsafe way? Is this an indoor or outdoor range, if out door the berm is there to catch rounds. I'm a little confused as to why he was disqualified.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
    The bay was a double berm with a roaming 180°. The red line is his shots. The graphic makes it appear more cut and dry than in real life.

    The spirit of the stage was to stand, get all your crap put on your belt, get pistol ready to go, then move forward & take left target on approach. He found a spot on his walk through that allowed him to see 5 targets from one position. He loaded everything up on the move and when he was ready to fire he was in his "spot".


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    The graphic helps, so there isn't a dirt mound on the other side it's just a wall of rail road ties. Seems like a combo of poor stage design and him gamming to a danger point.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    Sounds like a poorly designed range/stage given the stage rules "Do Not Shoot A Wall". Would a DQ result of a round ricocheted off the target or the BBLs the director placed?
    Last edited by Renegade; 05-23-17 at 16:20.

  9. #9
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    He owns the shots he took especially if he had a walk through and didn't realize where his shots would be impacting. I would however redo that stage jiffy quick. Take target #2 from the right of the near barrel and relocate to the right of far barrel or place a visual obstacle that insures the only way #1&2 can be engaged is head in with the berm as a backstop.

    Both the shooter and stage designer own the safety of a stage.

  10. #10
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    Shooter was duly notified of a shot angle that was not acceptable to the range or MD, and took it anyway. A DQ is not inappropriate.

    That being said, there is plenty of fail to go around. The stage design is faulty, and everyone relied upon human beings following instructions during a gun race to mitigate it. It also sounds like a range layout issue if there's an accessible, downrange-ish area protected only by a non-ballistic wall.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
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