Dissection Of A Match DQ

[TXBK]

[/URL]

That's easy. The stage briefing stated that shooters must make sure that all rounds hit the berm. Even though the wall is constructed of railroad ties, it isn't a ballistic barrier. Any round that the shooter didn't put into the berm is a violation. For that matter, it was a violation of the second rule as well, unless he intended to destroy the wall. The fourth rule doesn't only pertain to people. Cars, animals, structures, propane tanks, or anything else that isn't acceptable to put a round on is what the fourth rule covers. Thankfully, there were no bystanders behind the wall, and the wall stopped the rounds.

[YVK]

It is a violation of a stage protocol, which in turn is a violation of USPSA rules, which is why I made a point about sanctioned matches.
Forth rule is alive and well in USPSA except that, by agreement, it is taken care of by match organizers beforehand. Shooters can and must point out potential issues but should not be penalized for organizers mistakes.
I do have a problem with pinning it down on a shooter under a premise of 4th violation when it was a violation of MD's definition of 4th. Don't think I can accept that 4th in its global meaning was broken here without knowing what was down range behind the wall. Overall, failure to provide environment conducive to USPSA match, highly questionable violation of 4th, and presence of a de facto effective backstop and some other things mentioned make me feel that somebody was made a scapegoat here.

[Leaveammoforme]

No offense, but if you guys are running a USPSA sanctioned match and not an outlaw thing,.... .....From standpoint of adherence to the USPSA rules, it is a terribly wrong DQ.

This match is ran as a "USPSA style" match. Non-sanctioned, no ranking up, etc. The main USPSA aspect of it is the scoring. Some rules overlap some do not.

The MD went this route due to how popular standing in the open and blasting away, while exposed to multiple threats, has become in the gaming community.

This. This is part of the reason I shoot IDPA/USPSA once a month instead of 4. I saw a shooter get DQ'd on stage one of a sanctioned match for shooting steel from 9 yards instead of 10. Why was the stage(both my example and yours) set up to present these possibilities? I didn't see a "Watch out for shooting the walls!" clearly listed in the description either.

The shooter shot an array without breaking the 180.... what's the problem?

OP, you stated that you should have offered a muzzle or stop command- why did you end your "friends" shooting for the day? Dick move.

First bold: This is an extremely irritating by product of the gaming stuff. When we shot "IDPA style" it was flat out cut and dry. If the stage description didn't say something was allowed, it wasn't.

Every shooter is a lawyer now that the MD has gone the USPSA style route. "It doesn't say I can't stand on my head". "It doesn't say I can't jump and shoot over the barrels". On and on and on.

I misspoke by saying "Don't shoot the walls" was in the stage description. However it did include "Make sure all rounds impact the berm".

Second bold:

I screwed up. I will be the first to admit it and learn from it. As the Squad Leader, I'm ultimately responsible for the muzzle warning not being issued prior to his first shot.

In a perfect world, a muzzle warning will come from the RSO running the clipboard who is standing several feet behind the Shooter and Timer who has a better overall view of what's going on.

A Timer tends to focus on the firearm itself. An actual 180° break is easily spotted by a Timer. Less of a break can get tough to notice. My fault as the Timer was not adding his stage position to the stage layout in my noodle and coming up with "He's pointing at a wall" without actually observing him pointing at a wall.

As mentioned earlier, there are multiple faults at play here. We noted issues, stepped back to address them and corrections have begun.

We shot a rimfire match today. After the match briefing our squad had a quick squad briefing. I made it clear, without being a dick, what everyone's responsibilities were. I took extra time going over stage briefings and watched the little line of baby ducks do their ghost runs while observing where their invisible pistols were pointing. We had a great match.

Spoke to a board member about the wall situation. Something should come of that shortly.

[YVK]

This match is ran as a "USPSA style" match. Non-sanctioned, no ranking up, etc. The main USPSA aspect of it is the scoring. Some rules overlap some do not.

Then all is well and I have nothing.

[CPM]

Regardless of the 4 firearms safety rules, there should never be a stage set up with the potential to violate one without breaking the 180. The fact that someone knowingly did and then just adjusted the stage description instead of the stage is asinine.

The fact that the SO admittedly didn't make the call he should have and still sent him home is doubly irritating.

[Bluedreaux]

This is why affiliated clubs are so popular with people who are serious about the sport.

[threeheadeddog]

What was behind the wall? I cant help but wonder if that was a large 3 sided bay with a wall down the middle to separate it into 2 bays. If I am off base, than sorry. If that is the case though...

[jpmuscle]

I still don't understand why y'all set up such haphazard stage in the first place.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Leaveammoforme]

Regardless of the 4 firearms safety rules, there should never be a stage set up with the potential to violate one without breaking the 180. The fact that someone knowingly did and then just adjusted the stage description instead of the stage is asinine.

I still don't understand why y'all set up such haphazard stage in the first place.

I don't disagree. The range has a rule where all targets shall be placed at the berm. This thread probably wouldn't exist had the targets been placed in accordance with that rule.

The Board granted MD's the authority to override normal rules during a match. I think that a MD does need to be Top Dog during a match but there still needs to be limitations.

The fact that the SO admittedly didn't make the call he should have and still sent him home is doubly irritating.

Irritating? For sure. I'd add 'frustrating' with a hint of 'pissedoffness' as well.

Who would the responsibility fall on if a Judge was standing near a "Stop" sign, ever so gently tapping his gavel in his palm, and a driver failed to stop?

Better yet, to more appropriately fit the stage in question, let's say half of the sign is missing. The sign simply reads "OP". The Judge never informed the driver he had to stop. But come on, the driver knew he should have stopped. Maybe not necessarily from a legal stand point but at least from a common sense approach.

This is why affiliated clubs are so popular with people who are serious about the sport.

Agreed. There are different levels in any sport though.

What was behind the wall? I cant help but wonder if that was a large 3 sided bay with a wall down the middle to separate it into 2 bays. If I am off base, than sorry. If that is the case though...

It's one very large bay divided into 3 separate bays. The middle bay, you guessed it, has railroad ties on both sides.

It's not the division of bay's that bothers me. It's the barriers between them. Several old timers think the ties are sufficient but I'm working to change that. Like, I don't know, maybe similar to the concrete wall that separates the other bays.

[CPM]

Superflous and rude post that directly went against by signature.