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Thread: Price :: Performance in the 1-4/1-6/1-8 range

  1. #1
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    Price :: Performance in the 1-4/1-6/1-8 range

    Sirs,

    The latest 4th of July sales showed an SWFA 1-4x with a mount running for ~$340. That seems a steal.

    It got me thinking about the various price points for optics on the AR platform, and thus the various magnification thresholds for same.

    Currently, I am thinking that there are a few basic tiers to this problem:

    1) 4x-only, ACOG.
    Great durability, clarity, eye relief, usable reticle, etc. Also, $1000.

    2) 1-4x variable.
    Vortext 1-4 and SWFA 1-4 weigh in at ~$350 (or less with sales) to $500, and offer some decent reticles for the money. There's also names Steiner and NightForce at the higher end when you start talking ACOG money.

    3) 1-6x variable.
    Primary Arms and Leupold Patrol look like the best cost::quality ratio on this, with things like the Primary Arms Platinum, SWFA/Vortex HD lines,
    and Trijicog VCOG coming in at the top end. I like that 6x seems to be the real deal for shooting out to 300-500m, and I've definitely experienced better/faster hits at those ranges with greater than 4x mag.

    4) 1-8x variable.
    The range here is a lot broader and a lot spendier. 8x feels like the absolute outside of non-SPR optics magnification for the AR platform.

    The goal here is to extend my current rifle(s) beyond the capacities of 0-300m which the red dot manages with such aplomb. For those of you with boxes / drawers / shelves full of scopes, what do you still have mounted on your rifles and why? What is the price point, and what lessons have you learned when purchasing optics? I am inclined to grab an SWFA 1-4x unless there is a credible gain to be had in moving up into the $1000+ category beyond a few intangibles.

  2. #2
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    Price :: Performance in the 1-4/1-6/1-8 range

    Your question is kinda broad and hard to answer this way. And also I think your list isn't correct or complete.

    What type of reticle do you like? How far are you actually going to shoot and what target?

    Realistic budget? How much do you care about weight, glass and illumination?

    Fixed 4x: not many options. Acog is about it.

    1-4: I'd include Steiner px4i for the lower end

    1-6: patrol is 1.25-4, do you mean vx6? I'd look at the pst 2 for lower mid range price wise and then go up to the razor, mk6 and k16 for the high end. I haven't messed with the vcog but it doesn't get much love esp for the price.

    1-8: unless you're really going to be shooting long range and close with it, I dunno id probably go for the weight / cost / fov advantages you can find in 1-6 options or just get a 2.5-10. But for a cheaper option check classifieds and auction sites for the bushnell 1-8.5. Got a coworker one for $650.

    That said the main thing I've learned is to get behind the options you're looking at if you really want to make an informed decision. Everyone's preferences and priorities vary.

    There's no one optic out that does EVERYTHING so you're going to get a lot of varied answers.

    My favorite optic I've tried is the k16 but I just don't shoot enough to have $2000 of optic on one gun.

    I also love the ta33 but that probably won't help you if you're looking for longer range.


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    Last edited by jstalford; 07-06-17 at 21:48.

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    As much as I love my 1-8 Accupower I feel that the 1-8 is a niche market and not so much going to be the future quite yet. In 3gun we have to hit multiple targets from 3 yards then run over to a barricade and hit 6-10 inch plates from 250 yards on out to 400 yards in a match so sometimes that 8x helps hitting a small target at distance. I have a VCOG and I do enjoy it despite it not being daylight bright and I have 2 TR24's one with a green triangle and one with a german crosshair and green dot. The TR24's have great glass and I haven't seen anything in the 1-4 that beats them. Now some 1-6 has equally as good glass or slightly better like VCOG, Razor, Mk6, TR25. The difference is clarity is very slim but those scopes have higher magnification and some other features. But for a value in the 1-4 range the Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4 is hard to beat. My dad picked one up a few years back on gunbroker with the green spr dot for a hair under $300. Glass is the ultimate you get what you pay for in terms of clarity and durability. If I were to pick a new optic for a general purpose rifle I would roll with a Trijcon TR25, either color of your choice triangle if hitting a man size out to 300 was my goal but still having basically a red dot in close, or if I wanted to extend out to 400 I would roll with mil or moa dot. I have a buddy with a mil TR25 and it's great glass, the dot is small but a fine aiming point, the optic is lighter than most 1-6's, can be had on gunbroker for like $930, is durable, and does not require batteries.

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    I'm not sure I'd classify an acog as having great eye relief. I was all set to buy one until I actually tried it. You have to be waaaay up on that thing.

    As for the scope range, I have a 1-4 and a 2.5-10. greatly prefer shooting with the 2.5-10. so much so I'm going 3.5-15 for my next build. Necessary? No at all. But when you're out there messing around and can effortlessly nail targets from 50 to 300 yards with no effort (and no skill, heh), it's worth it. My advice is go with the greatest magnification at the lowest weight you can afford/tolerate

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    Quote Originally Posted by jstalford View Post
    Your question is kinda broad and hard to answer this way. And also I think your list isn't correct or complete.

    What type of reticle do you like? How far are you actually going to shoot and what target?

    Realistic budget? How much do you care about weight, glass and illumination?

    Fixed 4x: not many options. Acog is about it.

    1-4: I'd include Steiner px4i for the lower end

    1-6: patrol is 1.25-4, do you mean vx6? I'd look at the pst 2 for lower mid range price wise and then go up to the razor, mk6 and k16 for the high end. I haven't messed with the vcog but it doesn't get much love esp for the price.
    The list wasn't complete by any stretch of the imagination. As far as budget goes, I think that the ~$1200 area is my functional limit.

    For reticle, I am a big fan of the ACSS reticle, and others like it, as the purpose of this particular scope will be to engage man-sized targets out to 500m+ with 77gr OTM.

    Perhaps the main question is how big of a difference do you all find the extra 2 power in a 1-6 vs the 1-4 making in your accuracy and speed? Clearly, hands on experience trumps chit chat on the subject... but... the only rifle range that I have reliable access to in my immediate area is a 100m range, and anything farther takes a weekend trip. I'd be all about getting behind as many hunks of glass as I could, but it's not as feasible as I'd like.

    In the mean time, I am trying to figure out where things fall in a continuum. If I can get a decent 1-4 for $450, and a 1-6 for $600, does the extra two power really take me somewhere that a half case of ammo wouldn't? And then, from there, does doubling the cost of the scope double the functional value to the end user?

    I am looking to establish a range of options, so that I know what to look for when hunting down optics to actually have in hand. And finally, I typically sit back and wait until I find a killer deal on something that I have researched and determined to be a good investment, so some fact-finding helps me know what to be looking for deal-wise.
    Last edited by noonesshowmonkey; 07-07-17 at 03:43.

  6. #6
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    The extra 2x helps. Now I will advise against a BDC. They're great in theory and for military use because the in the military that BDC is designed around a specific round, barrel, twist rate, and all that. So if you have all the info on what that BDC was built around. That's why I say get mil or moa marks because you can set your own zero and learn your holds instead of having to dealing with a BDC that doesn't exactly match up.

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    I have been using a Primary Arms 1-8x since they where released and like it ALOT.

    The illumination is really well done. goes low enough at night, and high enough in the day time if thats your thing.

    Light weight for an LPV at 16 oz

    Durable enough: I haven't had any issues yet after dragging it through the AZ mountains for a shooting season.

    The only downside is that at 8x I feel the small aperture really shows the glass quality. It's definitely very useable at 8x but a lot of color and contrast gets lost in the glass. I feel this scope would be more tits at 6x ironically.

    The eye box is good. At 1x its very fast and somewhat forgiving. I can maintain cheekweld throughout the variable range which is super impressive for the price range in my opinion.
    Tactical Nylon Micro Brewery

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    Buy the best you can afford. $1200 is enough to get a gently used Nightforce 1-4 or Razor 1-6. Clyde Armory sells the trijicon 1-8 for $1299. Quality optics are worth the price.
    “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson.

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    I will say that I was shooting at 330 yards today with a Sig 1-4. It had GREAT glass and at 1 x it was really nice. For longer ranges I want a 1-6 or 1-8. I could makes hits on a 10" steel play at that distance but more magnification would have been welcomed.

    I would like to shoot through a 1-6 Razor. If it's anything like my GEN II on my bolt gun it would be awesome.


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    It is looking like my buy in points are either for an SWFA 1-4 or a Steiner 1-4, priced around $450-600.

    For 1-6x, there's Viper PSTs for $700-800, and TR25s for right around $1100, then Razor HDs for ~$1400. Maybe a SIG Tango 6 if I can find a decent deal?

    By the sound of it, and in my limited experience with variables, the 1-6 seems like the sweet spot for the 5.56x45mm in the use that I've intended it for: 300-500m man-sized targets with speed and accuracy.

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