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Thread: Huuuge groups today, what's going on?

  1. #21
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    I have yet to put any type of bore cleaner through it but was able to confirm on Saturday that the bore snake did a damn good job. Groups were back to normal and I was able to stretch it all the way out to 400, 500, and 600m pop up targets. I was pretty impressed, especially since I'm still using up the rest of that UNC and AE ammo.


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  2. #22
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    Huuuge groups today, what's going on?

    So I’m back to wondering about this again. Two weeks ago I was shooting at about 50m and was not grouping as well as I would have expected. Last week I bought a bipod, 68 and 77 grain BH match ammo, and ran some Lucas Extreme Duty bore solvent and a snake through it several times to try and remove as many variables as possible. Today I set the target at 100m, was prone on the ground with the bipod, and was using a Steiner P4Xi in an ADM mount. Updated round count is estimated at 3,975 including the rounds shot today, still only brass ammo. The results are pretty much the opposite of what I would have expected. All groups were five rounds and the squares and circles are one inch, target is standard 8.5x11 paper.

    Black Hills 68 grain Heavy Match HP ammo
    One: 2.5”
    Two: 3.75”

    Black Hills 77 grain OTM ammo
    Three: 8.75” with one round missing

    Unknown mixture of Remington UMC and/or PMC Bronze 55 grain ammo
    Four: 3.25” with called flyer
    Five: 5.25”

    Here are the photos.



    The 77 grain OTM was my third group. One impact can be seen in the third photo, at the bottom left of the three marked on the photo below. I have no idea where the fifth round went, there is no round on the target that isn't accounted far as I can tell. Group number four is the circled group of 55 gr junk, I knew that I pulled the last shot high. Group number five is marked by the red lines with the same range ammo, the other two rounds were off the paper and are on the third photo.





    The only group I am ok with is group four since I know I pulled that last shot. I really just don't understand what's going on. I'm far from the most accurate shot but I really don't think I'm that bad for it to be so inconsistent.
    Last edited by Wake27; 03-31-18 at 20:52.
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  3. #23
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    I'm still thinking it could be copper. Lots of solvents say they remove copper, when in reality they just remove a touch. If it smells pleasant, like strawberries or mint or grape, it isn't what you need. It should burn your nose and make your wife mad.
    I'd find some sweets 762, or Butch's, a one price rod, a brass jag, patches. Remove copper, then dry patch, then use hoppes to remove powder fouling. Then dry patch. Repeat until bore feels like glass. Maybe 4-8 times. Imo, this stuff builds up in layers, which is why alternating chemicals can help. I could feel my bore return to normal.

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  4. #24
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    As mentioned your barrel is probably coppered up. Your previous use of the bore snake was merely a bandaid.

    Get a very strong ammonia based cleaner like Barnes CR-10 or Sweets 7.62. I think the Barnes stuff is stronger. It’s so strong you will barely be able to stand using the stuff in an enclosed area. I suggest open air if weather allows. Keep running it down the barrel with patches until there is no hint of blue or green on those patches. If you don’t already own a quality one piece coated cleaning rod, and good quality cleaning jags, and brushes now is the time to obtain them.

    Might be a good time to pull your muzzle device off and clean all the built up carbon off the crown area.

    Is this a stainless barrel or one of their FN hammer forged chrome lined barrels? If it’s stainless and you’ve been using it like a bullet hose you may have toasted the throat and the barrel is now shot out.

  5. #25
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    Its one of their 249 style CL barrels. I'll try out some more cleaning stuff, thanks guys.
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  6. #26
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    I really do think a thorough cleaning with a focus on copper removal will help you out. Once a barrel is really coppered up it very suddenly will fall off in accuracy.

  7. #27
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    Be prepared to spend quite a bit of time running patches with copper solvent. It’s going to take awhile.

  8. #28
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    Yeah I spent a while researching and shopping last night and it made me realize how little I have as far as cleaning tools go. I think you guys may be right so I’m going to invest in some decent stuff and get to work.


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  9. #29
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    I really like this stuff: https://holsterops.com/products/roge...und-4oz-bottle

    I pretty much trust Bill Rogers. I happened to be at Rogers Shooting School when they rolled out the bore cleaner. Bill Rogers went into great detail one night about how he had developed the product with input from bench rest shooters and chemical engineers. Sold me on his logic and I've been happy with the bore cleaner.

    I've built my own uber set using this as a base and buying extra components: https://holsterops.com/collections/g...-cleaning-kits

  10. #30
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    Is it typical to need to remove copper every few thousand rounds? This has me thinking about rifles I own that are approaching the same round count as the OP.

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