USS Fitzgerald Collision (and another: USS McCain)

[26 Inf]

Probably had a heart attack after the collision. Fox news said he had just got the ship within the past few months. David

FWIW - I think the Captain was reported as having head injuries. This is from Another forum:

I sailed in her. Got married on that tour. I think that area would be forward engineering berthing; yeah, lot's of bad potential there. CO is reported as incapacitated. CO's cabin is just a little below and aft of the SPY arrays.

Additionally, in a BBC article they showed the track of the freighter and it was apparent that the freighter did a u-turn, which according to the Naval Officer quoted above is not an uncommon maneuver to adjust arrival times to pick up the pilot who will get them into port.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40314128

[26 Inf]

With all the modern electronics and room full of radar techs, etc would seem totally implausible the US war ship not aware of that Freighter. Money is on human error, but what could possibly make sense they'd be that close?

A couple of Naval Officers on another forum have mentioned that the ship was possible running no electronic emissions. Additionally, one of them pointed out the problems with closing ships:

CBDR. Constant Bearing Decreasing Range. That is the definition of a collision course. And at night, you don't see any movement of the lights, just the lights or ship getting bigger. We register movement much easier than something slowly increasing in size, so a lookout might have seen the lights, saw that their position wasn't changing, but not fully registered it as getting closer until very/too late.

Another Naval Officer, who I quoted in another post, who had actually served on the USS Fitzgerald added this:

All watches, but particularly the night watches, are governed by the CO's "Standing Orders" which give expectations and requirements to the watch team. One of the most important of those is to inform the CO of any contact with a Closest Point of Approach (CPA) inside given parameters, often 10,000 yards, no matter what time of day. So that can lead to the CO getting multiple calls every night. But the catch is you have to report the 10,000 yard CPA by the time the contact is at 20,000 yards (so the CO has time to act).

That leads to watch teams who can and do agonize over calling the CO on borderline cases (either because he's a good CO and you know he hasn't gotten decent sleep in days or because he's a screamer who will personally and professionally berate you no matter what you report to him...I've had both). For example, nav radars are not fire control radars, and slight changes in returns can give manual or computer generated CPAs that change by hundreds of yards between sweeps. Even SPY radar will do this, but for different reasons. So you can have a CPA that is jumping between 10,500 yards and 9,500 yards; do you call the CO? Sometimes you decide not to, and the contact is at say 14,000 yards before the CPA firms up to inside 10,000 yards.

Now you have to call the CO and tell him you failed to inform him at 20,000 yards. That's the right thing to do, and I've done it myself, but others have not. Yes there are other Officers and Chiefs on watch, but there is a strong institutional reluctance to override / undermine the OOD.

I'm not stating this as fact, but as a likely scenario. Given that the CO has reportedly been medevac'd with a head injury, and that his stateroom is within 50 ft of the point of impact, I'm strongly suspecting that he was in the rack at the time of collision, which would mean he either wasn't called by the watch team, or the team failed to adequately convey the situation (side note, I've called CO's at two am who didn't recall it the next morning; the best of them told me that if I had even the slightest suspicion that they weren't fully awake to take the report that I send the Messenger of the Watch to wake him). If the watch team thought they'd have a close CPA, but not collide, they likely maintained course and speed (did I mention that deviating from your nav track is also frowned upon) until they realized they were in trouble.

One thing to keep in mind when judging the watch team, outside of calling the CO: it's easy to say how do you NOT avoid that big a ship? But we don't know what other traffic may have been like. The obvious early evasion maneuver may have brought them across the course of another ship and it could have seemed like a close CPA is the lesser of two evils...right until you realize it's going to be a collision, not close. Which is why the CO wants to be called. It's ultimately his decision.

At this point, as these guys, who have both served as officers on the bridge of warships point out, none of us know what we don't know.

Has anyone made this eerie connection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vST6hVRj2A

[T2C]

With all the modern electronics and room full of radar techs, etc would seem totally implausible the US war ship not aware of that Freighter. Money is on human error, but what could possibly make sense they'd be that close?

Reports indicate it's a heavily traveled area. I still haven't read anything indicating if there were other vessels within close proximity when the collision occurred. Whoever was in command of the stand on vessel may have waited until the ships were within close proximity before taking evasive action to avoid the give way vessel. If other maritime traffic was within a few thousand yards, it would make plotting a course to avoid collision more difficult. Fishing vessels don't always keep their distance and that can complicate things.

If the freighter was executing another U-turn to adjust their port arrival time, without regard to the USS Fitzgerald's course, speed and position, that would be a significant factor.

I like to compare adjusting a ship's course and speed on the water to adjusting your car's course and speed on icy pavement to avoid collision. It takes time and finesse.

It's entirely too early to tell with reasonable certainty who is at fault.

If the seven missing Sailors were killed, I hope they find them below decks when they pump out the flooded spaces so their families can have closure.

Fair winds and following seas to the departed.

[pinzgauer]

CBDR. Constant Bearing Decreasing Range. That is the definition of a collision course. And at night, you don't see any movement of the lights, just the lights or ship getting bigger.

This is marine piloting 101... or piloting in general.

If you are angling toward another vessel, and the bearing is not moving, you are on a collision course.

Even applies to pleasure boats and airplanes.

I can only think of two causes:

1- CBDR, parallel courses slightly angled toward each other. Assuming converging heading and freighter was on starboard, due to right of way.

2- the Navy vessel was dead in the water or slow speed, and the freighter ran into it.

Case 1 Navy is at fault. Case 2 is the freighter fault

[duece71]

Everyone remembers the US Navy sub that hit the fishing boat? There was certain ineptitude to that collision as well. Human error happens.

[agr1279]

I can't think of any way that this could be good for a captain's career.

Don't forget the XO, Navigator, Engineer and usually a few more.

Dan

[Hmac]

Yeah, doesn't matter whose fault the collision was. I suspect that some spots will be opening up in the next round of Navy officer promotion boards. The US Navy represents one of the best-equipped and best-trained military forces in the world. Standards are high, expectations are high. I strongly suspect that even if the accident was entirely the merchant ship's fault, the fact that it wasn't avoided by the Fitzgerald means somebody ****ed up and will ultimately pay with their career.

.

[Ryno12]

Sounds like the seven sailors were located in the flooded areas of the ship.

RIP

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxne...ision.amp.html

[T2C]

At least the families know the fate of their loved ones. That removes uncertainty, which is some consolation.

Fair winds and following seas.

[Turnkey11]

Everyone remembers the US Navy sub that hit the fishing boat? There was certain ineptitude to that collision as well. Human error happens.

The Greenville/Ehime Maru collision was pure, malicious recklessness; they were hotshotting for guests on the ship. I just cant imagine how, post-USS Cole bombing, the US Navy allows ships of any size within a close proximity of one of their ships. Was someone asleep at the wheel? Are US warships incapable of detecting a threat the size of the merchant vessel? Imagine if it was a small, personal craft with a bomb...oh wait we did that nearly 20 years ago. There are so many WTF's I don't even know where to start with this one.