Rockwell hardness on finishes

[RobertTheTexan]

All Purpose?


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[MegademiC]

I had emailed the guys who do the Obsidian, TR-Enabling, with the very question I asked in the OP. Here is their response:

"You can use a brass brush however we would recommend using a standard plastic ap brush".

Not sure what an "ap" brush is. Nonetheless, it appears using a brass brush is not recommended.

tom12.7 likes hard chrome and so do I; you can see the dirt and use anything to get it off there.

Chrome is awesome. People like to poo-poo it because its old tech, and hex chrome is bad for the environment and is a generally nasty chemical, not easy to work with, and good sources are becoming scarce.
But it fits into certain applications without a replacement.

NIB is really hard
Ni-ptfe is really corrosion resistant, but neither are direct replacements of chrome. I would choose NP3 as I don't clean the crap out of my stuff. Cr would be my 2nd choice in coatings all things equal.

[Kdubya]

I've come across the TR-Enabling as well. Have you looked at the Cryptic Coatings at all? IIRC, they're the retail arm of Toolcraft. Pricing is going to be around the same as TR, but Cryptic offers like 6 different coatings to choose from. All have varying degrees of friction coefficient, hardness, thickness of coating, etc. Their flagship is Mystic Black. Torture testing seemed to show it lives up to the hype.

Are you ultimately looking for hardness? If so, I believe DLC is king of that hill. It gets up into the 90s, but still retains some of the coefficient of friction advantages we see with the Nickel coatings.

I've long been hemming and hawing over purchasing a "fancy" coated bcg. Traditional has always worked, but I'd like to at least give one a shot. I simply can't decide. And it's a want, not a need. For now, I'll just continue to live vicariously through those who are able to make a decision

[Rogue556]

How do some of these coatings stack up against the coating LMT uses on their enhanced bolts? I believe LMT uses an Electroless Nickel coating of sorts on their enhanced bolts right? (I could be way wrong here, so forgive my lack of certainty).

If so, it looks like it could be comparable to the Nickel Teflon coating mentioned in the OP, so long as it's heat treated correctly.

"A typical hardness of electroless Nickel, as deposited is in the range 450-480 H.V. (46-48 Rockwell C.) However, the deposits can be precipitation hardened by heat treatment at 400°C for one hour, to 800-950 H.V. (64-68 Rockwell C.) This heat treatment will also improve adhesion and wear resistance."

http://www.hardchrome.com.au/technol...roless-nickel/

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can break down the differences.

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[ABNAK]

How do some of these coatings stack up against the coating LMT uses on their enhanced bolts? I believe LMT uses an Electroless Nickel coating of sorts on their enhanced bolts right? (I could be way wrong here, so forgive my lack of certainty).

If so, it looks like it could be comparable to the Nickel Teflon coating mentioned in the OP, so long as it's heat treated correctly.

"A typical hardness of electroless Nickel, as deposited is in the range 450-480 H.V. (46-48 Rockwell C.) However, the deposits can be precipitation hardened by heat treatment at 400°C for one hour, to 800-950 H.V. (64-68 Rockwell C.) This heat treatment will also improve adhesion and wear resistance."

http://www.hardchrome.com.au/technol...roless-nickel/

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can break down the differences.

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LMT is kinda cagey about what exactly the finish is. "Proprietary" is usually what you hear. That said, I have two Enhanced BCG's and love 'em. Yes, they do clean up easily and I'm not careful about what I use to clean them either.

[ABNAK]

Chrome is awesome. People like to poo-poo it because its old tech, and hex chrome is bad for the environment and is a generally nasty chemical, not easy to work with, and good sources are becoming scarce.
But it fits into certain applications without a replacement.

NIB is really hard
Ni-ptfe is really corrosion resistant, but neither are direct replacements of chrome. I would choose NP3 as I don't clean the crap out of my stuff. Cr would be my 2nd choice in coatings all things equal.

I look at it like this: the piston on every modern military small arm (since WWII, and even then many were) is chromed. The bolt on an AR is essentially the piston, so why not?

[MegademiC]

How do some of these coatings stack up against the coating LMT uses on their enhanced bolts? I believe LMT uses an Electroless Nickel coating of sorts on their enhanced bolts right? (I could be way wrong here, so forgive my lack of certainty).

If so, it looks like it could be comparable to the Nickel Teflon coating mentioned in the OP, so long as it's heat treated correctly.

"A typical hardness of electroless Nickel, as deposited is in the range 450-480 H.V. (46-48 Rockwell C.) However, the deposits can be precipitation hardened by heat treatment at 400°C for one hour, to 800-950 H.V. (64-68 Rockwell C.) This heat treatment will also improve adhesion and wear resistance."

http://www.hardchrome.com.au/technol...roless-nickel/

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can break down the differences.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Electroless is the method, not necessarily the coating.
High phosphorus engineering nickel can be deposited electroless, or electroplated.
NiB and NP3 (Nickel-ptfe/Teflon composite) are both typically deposited electrolessly for uniformity.

To deposit a metal, it needs to be oxidized to get it into solution, then reduced onto the substrate. This can be done chemically (electroless) or electrochemically (electrons reduce the ions on the cathode and oxidize them on the anode).

The method, the chemicals used as the "carriers"(anions in solution), and many other factors can influence the deposit structure and properties.
Then you have heat treatments which further alter the deposits.

[Straight Shooter]

I had emailed the guys who do the Obsidian, TR-Enabling, with the very question I asked in the OP. Here is their response:

"You can use a brass brush however we would recommend using a standard plastic ap brush".

Not sure what an "ap" brush is. Nonetheless, it appears using a brass brush is not recommended.

tom12.7 likes hard chrome and so do I; you can see the dirt and use anything to get it off there.

The ap..All Purpose brush is the standard issue green toothbrush in the old gov issue cleaning kits. Remember the two heads..one big & one small? That's it.
I also scrape mine with a pick or a small screwdriver like MarkM said...I didn't wanna say that cause I figured Id get lectured that I was "gonna scratch/gouge/ruin the bolt by doing that. Done it for years with no probs yet.

[ABNAK]

The ap..All Purpose brush is the standard issue green toothbrush in the old gov issue cleaning kits. Remember the two heads..one big & one small? That's it.
I also scrape mine with a pick or a small screwdriver like MarkM said...I didn't wanna say that cause I figured Id get lectured that I was "gonna scratch/gouge/ruin the bolt by doing that. Done it for years with no probs yet.

Oh okay, I know what it is now, thanks. Never heard it referred to as "ap". I also have one with brass bristles; works well but deforms quickly.

[Straight Shooter]

I had emailed the guys who do the Obsidian, TR-Enabling, with the very question I asked in the OP. Here is their response:

"You can use a brass brush however we would recommend using a standard plastic ap brush".

Not sure what an "ap" brush is. Nonetheless, it appears using a brass brush is not recommended.

tom12.7 likes hard chrome and so do I; you can see the dirt and use anything to get it off there.

Oh okay, I know what it is now, thanks. Never heard it referred to as "ap". I also have one with brass bristles; works well but deforms quickly.

Most welcome Sir. Pronounced A-P..not ap like a phone app tho.