LAPD Officially DISAPPROVES Of The Use Of The Blackhawk Serpa Holster

[HCM]

Here is a link to the FLETC study on the SERPA.

https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/...isterStudy.pdf

The FLETC SERPA ban came after four NDs with injury, all on the draw.

You will still see some SERPA's at FLETC however. FLETC is a multi agency training organization with over 80 partner organizations. The largest of these is CBP, including USBP, both of which issue SERPA's along with Safariland SLS and SLS / ALS combos. Basically CBP said if you (FLETC) are banning SERPAs does that mean you are buying us new holsters ? The result is SERPAs are banned unless it is your agency issued / mandated holster.

[ramairthree]

I think the emotional investment comes in two parts.

Tons of people have used and seen even greater numbers of people use them with no issues.
Tons of people are positive that they cannot be used safely.

People that use them with no issues don't like being called idiots.
People that have had issues with them don't like being called idiots.

In 2017 they should be a non issue.
I don't know of any military unit or police department in 2017, as opposed to say, 2007, is going to run out and drop a ton of money on these to outfit a bunch of guys with new ones.
There are better choices now.

On the other hand, if you have been using one for a decade, without issue,
Feel free to keep on using it. I am not going to replace half a dozen pieces of backup kit all at once.

It is part of the evolution of gear.
Current holsters and lights and locations of carry have come a long way since my first M9 Laser Technolgies pre Surefire model and first thumb snap release thigh holster in the 90s.
Which was light years ahead of the Bianchi I got in the 80s.
Which was a step up from the Leather 1911 flap holster ensuring my gun was always wet holster.

I don't use the same sling I did in the 80s.
I don't use single point or three point slings anymore.
I don't use a redi mag anymore.

But there was a time they were a step up from preceeding options.

Part of the emotional investment is ODA and Ranger Bn guys that have used them without issue get sick of cheeto eating basement dwellers with no qualifications acting superior about kit selection because of shit they read on the internet while they fantasize about bathing in the ball sweat of their worshipped instructor personality they are quoting.

Part of the emotional investment is solid guys with reservations about the holster while training large quantities of regular cross section guys getting told they are dumbasses without enough training by supply sergeants who brag about the years of combat they carried their pistol in combat with no issues. Typically near knee height on a thigh version while making copious trips to the FOB PX and chow hall.

The Serpa to retention holsters is sort of like the Eotech to RDS.
People have used them just fine.
Time has proven there are better options, no matter what you like about them.

90% of the people deriding either have never taken multiple trips to an objective or been in TICS with them.

Just like 90% of people deriding DI vs piston had even been in a TIC. Or 9mm vs 45. Or AK vs AR.

We live in a world where you will see dipshits open carrying Glocks in nylon holsters with open trigger guard areas that never have a ND. And Dudes with DA SA guns on safe in full coverage holsters that do.

[southswede]

We aren't talking about Glock's, we are talking about Serpa's.

And, I really don't know why Blackhawk is still making them. Since in civil suits we are talking about a 'majority' of fault, litigation wise it could be that in order to ND the weapon, you do need to violate the instructions Blackhawk provides.

Additionally, far as we know, no one has been killed as a result of one of these ND's.

Personally, after someone had demo'ed to me how ND's happened with a holster I'd made, I'd have to stop making the holster simply because ethically it would be the right thing to do.

Well I bring up the Glock because it too was blamed for negligent discharges-just like the serpa is blamed for people pulling the trigger. But as you clearly point out, it is the persons negligence and not the equipment used.

As for the death resulting from a person's negligence, again, as you point out it is the person's negligence.

If Blackhawk or Glock did as you claim you would have done, we wouldn't have some of the very best tools available to us, now would we?

Yes, yes I am sure the negligence is due to the shooter violating the instructions provided, as well as the universally taught rules of safe gun handling. I am sure this is my there is a lack of civil litigation directed at Blackhawk. Seems some understand what happens when the trigger is pulled either intentionally or otherwise.

He claimed he did. The video tells another story.

Just like people claiming they didn't pull the trigger on Glock's that went off during re-holstering.

[tylerw02]

Serpa is a shitty holster.

/thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[southswede]

Serpa is a shitty holster.

/thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some say the same of Glock's.

I think the emotional investment comes in two parts.

Tons of people have used and seen even greater numbers of people use them with no issues.
Tons of people are positive that they cannot be used safely.

People that use them with no issues don't like being called idiots.
People that have had issues with them don't like being called idiots.

In 2017 they should be a non issue.
I don't know of any military unit or police department in 2017, as opposed to say, 2007, is going to run out and drop a ton of money on these to outfit a bunch of guys with new ones.
There are better choices now.

On the other hand, if you have been using one for a decade, without issue,
Feel free to keep on using it. I am not going to replace half a dozen pieces of backup kit all at once.

It is part of the evolution of gear.
Current holsters and lights and locations of carry have come a long way since my first M9 Laser Technolgies pre Surefire model and first thumb snap release thigh holster in the 90s.
Which was light years ahead of the Bianchi I got in the 80s.
Which was a step up from the Leather 1911 flap holster ensuring my gun was always wet holster.

I don't use the same sling I did in the 80s.
I don't use single point or three point slings anymore.
I don't use a redi mag anymore.

But there was a time they were a step up from preceeding options.

Part of the emotional investment is ODA and Ranger Bn guys that have used them without issue get sick of cheeto eating basement dwellers with no qualifications acting superior about kit selection because of shit they read on the internet while they fantasize about bathing in the ball sweat of their worshipped instructor personality they are quoting.

Part of the emotional investment is solid guys with reservations about the holster while training large quantities of regular cross section guys getting told they are dumbasses without enough training by supply sergeants who brag about the years of combat they carried their pistol in combat with no issues. Typically near knee height on a thigh version while making copious trips to the FOB PX and chow hall.

The Serpa to retention holsters is sort of like the Eotech to RDS.
People have used them just fine.
Time has proven there are better options, no matter what you like about them.

90% of the people deriding either have never taken multiple trips to an objective or been in TICS with them.

Just like 90% of people deriding DI vs piston had even been in a TIC. Or 9mm vs 45. Or AK vs AR.

We live in a world where you will see dipshits open carrying Glocks in nylon holsters with open trigger guard areas that never have a ND. And Dudes with DA SA guns on safe in full coverage holsters that do.

Well reasoned and logical post.

[tylerw02]

Some say the same of Glock's.

Why does everybody want to talk about Glocks? This thread is about Serpas.

Serpa is uncle mike's, Blackhawk!, butler creek quality.

The emotional bs here is asinine. I expect more from members here.


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[southswede]

Why does everybody want to talk about Glocks? This thread is about Serpas.

Serpa is uncle mike's, Blackhawk!, butler creek quality.

The emotional bs here is asinine. I expect more from members here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The correlation is simple: people blamed Glock's because of negligence just like they blame serpa holsters.

[tylerw02]

The correlation is simple: people blamed Glock's because of negligence just like they blame serpa holsters.

Except the Serpa encourages a habit that makes negligence easy.

Serpas suck even if that wasn't true.


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[JulyAZ]

The correlation is simple: people blamed Glock's because of negligence just like they blame serpa holsters.

I see no comparison of Glock to Serpas, nothing about using a Glock correctly can induce a ND like using a Serpa correctly. It's not a training issue it's a plain and simple design issue.


How is this thread not locked given the amount of emotion flying around and lack of reasoning.

[southswede]

I see no comparison of Glock to Serpas, nothing about using a Glock correctly can induce a ND like using a Serpa correctly. It's not a training issue it's a plain and simple design issue.


How is this thread not locked given the amount of emotion flying around and lack of reasoning.

Not following the rules of safe gun handling IS a training issue. Blaming equipment for the user pulling the trigger is, at best laughable and worst absurd.