THE BAD: What AR accessory do you really dislike or is just flat out useless?

[Duffy]

Our upcoming SBCG has serrations in the area to make it useful as a pseudo FA. In an email conversation I had with Chris Bartocci, he confirmed the scalloped area was there to accommodate the ejection port cover's spring loaded ball bearing housing.

I have not heard of other reasons for the negative space/relieved area where the gas vents are located.



As to the FA itself, I'd rather have it and not need it, than the other way around. I mostly use it to close the bolt quietly, but have used it also when I manually feed each round into the chamber and slowly/quietly close the bolt (when I mismatched the barrel with the upper and it wouldn't feed reliably in a prototype, testing had to continue ) I sure was glad the FA was there when I needed it.

If you use an ambi charging handle, remove the upper ledge of the FA plunger cap, or get our LDFA (low drag forward assist) so the FA won't catch on your fingernail or knuckle as you pull the CH back with your right hand.

[Kain]

The internet wasn't around back then. I would suggest looking at earlier Armalite carriers to study how they evolved. It's not just ease of machining, directed porting wasn't bad in concept, but what they learned from that was we enter to today. We really do not want to increase the surface areas in that location.

Do you have links or a source or some sort showing the evolution to support what you are saying? I don't have the time to go digging for OG Armalite BCG pics, and if machining differences are all you are going off, I am not convinced since some of that shit can be open to interpretation. So I need something, be it legit Stoner, or Sullivan going this is why we went with this direction and you don't want this because of issues of one sort or another, or some other source. Stoner, from my understanding was not in favor of the FA and it was the Army's demand for it, right or wrong, that ended up with it on the rifle. Stoner's last real hands on with the AR, while working with KAC did not have an FA on the SR25s, there might be a point here. I have FA on all my guns, but, I'm not beholden to any particular thing and I have no emotional attachment to it, or anything on a fighting rifle for that matter. If we can possibly improve a design then perhaps it is a conversation worth having. Path to success is littered with failures and all that jazz. But, I'd like to see more than just one person's word on the carrier being designed like it was. I mean, if we want to argue about the design of the AR 15, and really start going to some rabbit holes, why not a square carrier? Lots of other designs went that route. How about the basic deletion of a winter trigger guard in modern times? It was on there for a reason, we would assume, and current treads pretty much completely removes it, you don't see the fighting about that, compared to the idea that maybe we don't need the FA in the current guise. While on that topic, if you think it is required, please by all means provide some damn information or experiences than just that it is needed, it adds little to the discussion. I can honestly point to both sides of the argument as I am seeing it and with stuff that I have seen currently and go both are points. One side going removing it reduces weight, complexity, you still have a FA of a kind in the BCG, and honestly if you are pounding that round into the chamber maybe you don't want it there(Been there, done that, was not fun to clear, and would have been a bitch on a two way range. Just clearing the chamber would have resolved the issue though without needing to mortar the ****ing gun), as well as the argument that I like having it because it just might be useful, and I have used it to assist a bolt into chamber when trying not to just let shit fly, or during a press check, and trust you me, I have held that opinion, of have and not need, for a long time. However, having beat the hell from a couple rifles and not come to a situation where the FA was a benefit over what the scallop on the rifle would have offered, I'm beginning to wonder whether I need it, whether it might not be needed on certain guns and perhaps there is a better solution to getting a sticky bolt into battery than something that adds the weight, bulk, and parts. If anything, in my experience, I am more interested in being able to force the bolt open than force it closed.

I also want to know why we don't want to increase surface area, legit question, why. We are a technical forum, and part of the idea behind here is a greater understanding of the AR as a platform, and if you got information on something I haven't seen come up before I am seriously all ears, because I'm not seeing where the issue with the added surface area comes up. More so, when one considers that if limiting surface area on the BCG is a thing, there are a number of places where it could be limited.

[MegademiC]

Increased surface area will increase carbon buildup.
However, being a recessed area with no contact to anything, I’d say it’s irrelevant.

Honest question, no one has answered yet, when would you use a forward assist that the scallop would not suffice?
Why was chambering a new round not a better option?

[Duffy]

A plunger tapped by the palm can exert more force than a thumb pushing on the recessed area. The FA is a lever of sorts, and therefore has mechanical advantage / force amplification.

I think military think and civilian practicality don't always go hand in hand. The reason to include one made sense to the Army back then, given the experience and improvement over the last 50 to 60 years, I wonder if the Army would still insist on one if a new carbine is adopted? M4s made today still have the forward assist, so evidently it's still of value.

[MistWolf]

Increased surface area will increase carbon buildup.

Larger surface to spread carbon over equals thinner layer of carbon.

Honest question, no one has answered yet, when would you use a forward assist that the scallop would not suffice?

When my thumb is too big to fit in the ejection port, when I don't want go cut my gloves or my thumb on the sharp edge, when my hands are just too damned cold and when easing to BCG closed, it hangs up too far aft to get to the scallop

Why was chambering a new round not a better option?

Sometimes I don't want to let the BCG slam home.

[jbjh]

Increased surface area will increase carbon buildup.
However, being a recessed area with no contact to anything, I’d say it’s irrelevant.

Honest question, no one has answered yet, when would you use a forward assist that the scallop would not suffice?
Why was chambering a new round not a better option?

I was talking with a newly minted Force Recon Marine last Christmas, and this topic came up.

I opined that using forward assist try to force a round into the chamber was doubling down on bad; there's a reason it won't go in, don't make it so it won't come out.

He said that he was taught to use the forward assist to silently chamber a round, like when letting the bolt fly would give away his position.


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[MegademiC]

Larger surface to spread carbon over equals thinner layer of carbon.


When my thumb is too big to fit in the ejection port, when I don't want go cut my gloves or my thumb on the sharp edge, when my hands are just too damned cold and when easing to BCG closed, it hangs up too far aft to get to the scallop


Sometimes I don't want to let the BCG slam home.

As for the carbon buildup, it may be a thinner layer, but total mass of carbon condensed onto the bcg will theoretically be more. There is more interaction of carbon is the gas form and the cool bcg surface.

The rest of the stuff makes sense, perhaps my bolt fit is a bit looser than some as they go home with very little force.

[RAM Engineer]

He said that he was taught to use the forward assist to silently chamber a round, like when letting the bolt fly would give away his position.

In what situations would you be silently chambering a round when in a concealed position?

[Warp]

In what situations would you be silently chambering a round when in a concealed position?

Home defense carbine stored without one in the chamber?

IDK, not something I worry about.

[tom12.7]

How many of us would prefer the remedial action drill of S.P.O.R.T.S. without the FA, using thumb pressure only in the scallop?