Update post 32* What do you make of this group?

[gaijin]

Good offhand groups CD.

I always rest my wrists over my range bag when shooting from bench, as you figured out.
Like a rifle barrel that's not floated, vibration/bouncing around on the bench is an accuracy killer.

[Coal Dragger]

Interesting, and thank you.

The glock I definitely have problems with, as the rear sight had no defined edge (worn down to silver with perfect lighting to blend it with the background), and its shooting high enough that I need "some white" showing between the 6oclock of the b8 and the top of the front sight.

The m&p had a nice crisp rear and hits center of b8 with the top of the front sight just touching the bottom of the b8.

Because of this, I'm more confident with the m&p, but the performance is not there. My groups with the glock are already better after 300rds with it, and I expect improvement with a new front sight and painting the rears.

The 7 ring shot on the last left target was pulled. I pushed the gun just before breaking the shot. I'm going to try shooting at a cadence next time, but I need to paint the front. I really struggle keeping focus on the black sight over a black target.

Nice shooting btw.

Sight picture quality starts making a big difference as you start to push the range out. Some configurations are a lot easier to concentrate on and get a sharp crisp front sight. Generally for my eyes if I'm target shooting a black front sight and black rear sight are easiest to use in good light. There's a reason serious target pistols almost always run an undercut black front and an adjustable black rear that has a blade angled to simulate an undercut: this produces a glare proof inky black sight picture that contrasts really well with a paper target, or steel target painted white.

Most bullseye shooters I know, myself included, prefer to take a 6-o'clock hold on a black bull because that is the easiest way to keep a vertical reference for aiming point. Simply adjust the sights to put rounds in the "x" ring from that bottom hold. Obviously this is tough to do when you don't have adjustable sights, fortunately HK must care enough to put sights on that are regulated for elevation and windage. I don't like the sight picture much for target shooting, but I'll be damned if I'm going to screw with a set of fixed night sights that shoot dead on to the top of the front sight to 50 yards with 124gr bullets using a center hold. Your sights need to be changed to suit your needs, and your preference for sight picture if they are not easy to focus on.

Targets also make a difference here. You're shooting at B8 bulls and that is good, they're big enough to see and keep reference on while a bit blurry out at 25 yards while you focus a sharp front sight. The targets I used suck: the 100 yard rifle zero targets present a black box that works OK even out of focus, but in the middle that orange 2"X2" gets lost in bright light against that white backdrop. The 50 M prone smallbore target was better but a bit small to hold on with pistol sights, which stands to reason because it is designed for serious small bore rifle shooters to shoot using aperture sights from prone. Stick with the B8 bulls or other similar targets made for 25 yard center fire pistol, they're easier to use and your results show it.

Your Glock is shooting better than your M&P, no doubt. The Glock barrel is fitted better and it shows. The barrel on my VP9 is fitted pretty damn well too, although I've not put feeler gauges to the barrel hood and breech face. Welcome to the world of shooting stuff past the 7 yard line... mechanical accuracy starts to make a big difference that most never realize.

Triggers also make a huge difference. If you're fighting a gritty spongy creepy trigger that weighs 7lbs, your on target results are going to suck balls compared to you shooting the gun with a nice slick 4.5lb (or lighter) trigger with a nice clean break. I put a match sear spring in my VP9 and it got the 2nd stage down about 1lb in combination with the stock trigger return spring, so it's about a 4.5lb trigger now. Light enough to shoot well, but not so light it is a liability for a carry gun.

The last bit of advice is technique related, and therefore the hardest to achieve and the toughest to accept for some. That is to accept that you have an arc of movement. It sounds like some zen bullshit, but you have to accept the fact you can't hold perfectly still and make the gun go off when the sight picture is perfect. Align your sights, focus on the front sight, and while the front sight wobbles around on target press the trigger strait back until the pistol fires. Don't get caught up in trying to force the trigger when the sights appear to be perfect, that is a road to failure as you will influence sight alignment when you do this. Particularly true when dealing with a heavy trigger, you can honestly get away with it a bit on a lighter crisper trigger. My .22LR match pistol has the trigger set to 1 kilo.... you can get away with quite a few trigger control sins on that one and still hit the target pretty well.

[MegademiC]

Awesome stuff. Noticed a few things:

Rear sight: the factory glock night sights absolutely suck. They are angled forward and the edges vanish in most lighting conditions. My ameriglo rears for the m&p are cut so the rear face is angled down and contrasts the target, almost all targets in nearly all lighting conditions. That said, I'm getting an rmr and they will soon be for reference only, so the rears will stay,new front coming.

Trigger: running stock triggers on both guns. Want to keep factory, but may want a little "more"(it's a carry gun first and foremost). What's the next "step", a glock factory minus connector?

I'll be dry firing both all week and heading back out this weekend. Unfortunately I lost my shot timer so timed drills have to wait.

[Coal Dragger]

I'm not a Glock trigger guru so defer to others. Options exist that are safe and reliable and don't suck. I've shot a few but don't recall particulars.

[MegademiC]

I actually like the feel of it, I feel like it's easy to shoot well as it's a more gradual increase in pressure, opposed to a hard 2nd stage. I just want a slight reduction in weight, and maybe smooth the increase in pressure a bit... for those who know Glock triggers.

[MegademiC]

Update: another day at the 25yd line.

Shield 9 resulted in a solid 5" 9 shot group- pulled 1.
The glock resulted in more consistent groups 4-5" today.
The m&p was similar but throwing multiple fliers each group. It shot worse than the shield and that was with the storm lake barrel again.

I did some research and ended up purchasing a minus connector and KKM conversion barrel for the glock. I've always ran stock guns, but feel the minus connector will allow easier and tighter groups, especially with the KKM barrel, without compromising reliability/safety.

On a side note: I had another malfunction with the glock running federal aluminum. I think it's oversprung, as the slide cycle is extremely fast. The malfunction looked like the slide either didn't go back far enough or cycled too quickly. Also purchased a g19 action spring for the conversion. I'll post groups once the barrel comes and and wrap this thing up.

At this point I don't think I'll ever know if the fliers are me or the gun, but based on the shield results, I'm thinking it's the gun.