Update post 32* What do you make of this group?

[556BlackRifle]

These are 2 different "platforms" so no swapping. Don't look at location, look at group size (I have not adjusted or verified center the sights for left gun. I have 100rds on that platform, 3k plus on the right.

I see less variability and stringing on the left. I group the right one tighter, but throw some flyers past the extremes of the left, so if you measure left group size it's less.

The benched was the kicker for me, it seems the right is a hardware problem, where the left is me opening up the groups.
The rapid fire I have an extra hit on paper with left gun.


Thanks for the feedback, thoughts on above?

I hear what you're saying and you may be right but here's how I looked at it:

On the first target, by my eye, the 8 shot cluster at the top looks tighter than the 9 shot cluster on the left.

Second target, fliers aside, the one on the left looks more consistent.

Third target, I find the pattern on the right to be more consistent.

Target four, they both look good but the left looks better. The right target shows vertical stringing. It could be shooter related so I discounted the entire set.

Five, if you pull the fliers from both, I think the pattern on the right looks better.

So based on the above, overall, I'd say the patterns right appear to be more consistent than the left. I wouldn't be 100% confident that the one on the right is better than the one on the left or vis versa, without more data.

[MegademiC]

Great info - thanks for the breakdown. I don't want to discount fliers, as they are me and I'm not looking at just the gun, but how I use it.

I guess it comes down to accept fliers or work in getting more consistent with the left gun. The benched group makes me think there's not much room for improvement for the right gun. Now that I think about it, I feel I can call fliers with the left while the right, some groups felt good and I was surprised by fliers or how big the group was.. It's like it groups better 90% of the time and the rest are complete missed or wild fliers. The lack of predictability makes me root for the left gun, (hardware problem is easy fix), but that's why I'm posting, to be honest with myself.

Alright, I'm going to get some different ammo and see what happens next weekend - I'll update after next range trip.

Thanks again for the input.

[MegademiC]

Update:

Alright, after spending the week dry firing both pistols daily, I made the following targets today.
The m&p is my "old" gun the g23 is new to me.

I called almost every shot outside of the 9 ring with the g23. The sights are more difficult to use, and I was more consistent with it, much better than last week.

The m&p, not sure if it's me or the gun, but it throws random shots that surprise me. I have 2 shots that feel the same, 1 is in the black with the rest, the next is off the paper(I literally had shots off paper that I couldn't explain, not so with the glock). I also measured the barrel to slide fit per Grants explanations and got 0.006. The glock is .0035.

Next is a new front sight, kkm9mm barrel and mill the slide (aeti)


Off hand federal aluminum:


Off hand shooting 2 strings of 5 each.


Offhand using Winchester carry ammo (bonded)

[Coal Dragger]

So in order to try to help you out I hit the range on Sunday and did some work at the 25 yard line with my VP9. Shot both off hand standing, and using a bag for a rest.

A couple of observations that might help you, and that I identify as problems that I have that might be affecting you too. I will post photos of targets as I shot them to demonstrate.

The first is a 5 shot string fired off hand at 25 yards on a lousy target for pistol shooting. I had trouble referencing a good vertical position to hold on the target and consequently held too high on occasion.

[Coal Dragger]

I then walked down range to check my work and fired 5 more for a total of 10 rounds. Notice the trouble again with vertical reference and a shift in my natural point of aim now a bit to the left of the first string.



Changes in natural point of aim will screw with your results. I made sure only shoot 5 rounds at a time on these to demonstrate subtle changes in position affecting on target results.

[Coal Dragger]

Next I glued a fresh target on and ran the same 124gr American Eagle load but shot it resting the gun on a bag. This method proved unsatisfactory as the bottom of the magazine would bump the wood bench top and screw up the position every shot. Again 5 round strings. Again changes in the position or NPA affect results.





Still technically more consistent than shooting off hand.

[Coal Dragger]

Next I ran a 115gr Hornady HAP reload in mixed brass to see how it shoots. As you can notice this prints a bit to the right. Not all ammo will shoot to POA=POI. Don't listen to idiots that tell you to change your grip or perform some other voodoo to remedy this. They're morons who probably cannot shoot a pistol.

This is 20 rounds again fired from standing. Again some issues with vertical reference, probably some POI shift from mag changes and changes in foot position. Fatigue was setting in a bit too, as it was pretty warm and I was sweating my balls off.

[Coal Dragger]

Not content with the above results I rested the same load over my bag again but this time rested my wrists and not the pistol. This proved beneficial in keeping my head up and more comfortable, and preventing the pistol from bouncing off the wooden bench top with each shot. I also changed to a smaller but higher contrast target of heavier paper stock.

I still managed to flub the last 5 round string after going to take photos of the first 5 rounds. Keeping consistent vertical reference is a challenge for me. Particularly with these damn 3 dot night sights.



This is about a 2" group for the first 5. Then the wheels fell off. LOL. Damn you vertical reference points!

[Coal Dragger]

Still not a bad day.

[MegademiC]

Interesting, and thank you.

The glock I definitely have problems with, as the rear sight had no defined edge (worn down to silver with perfect lighting to blend it with the background), and its shooting high enough that I need "some white" showing between the 6oclock of the b8 and the top of the front sight.

The m&p had a nice crisp rear and hits center of b8 with the top of the front sight just touching the bottom of the b8.

Because of this, I'm more confident with the m&p, but the performance is not there. My groups with the glock are already better after 300rds with it, and I expect improvement with a new front sight and painting the rears.

The 7 ring shot on the last left target was pulled. I pushed the gun just before breaking the shot. I'm going to try shooting at a cadence next time, but I need to paint the front. I really struggle keeping focus on the black sight over a black target.

Nice shooting btw.