Update post 32* What do you make of this group?

[Coal Dragger]

Suggestions for MegademiC:

1.) As noted shoot from a good pistol rest if possible, sometimes you have an off day and shooting from a more solid position can help eliminate shooter error, fatigue, and arc of movement. Remember we're testing the pistol, barrel, and ammo not necessarily the shooters practical accuracy skills.

2.) Try a variety of ammo in testing to get an idea of overall consistency, it sounds like you have two examples of the same pistol so this is a good opportunity to take a baseline between the two but you need more than one ammo choice because every barrel is a law unto itself. If the new gun out shoots the old one with everything then you'll have an answer.

3.) Before you test do the old pistol a favor and put fresh springs in it, particularly the recoil spring. Strong consistent lockup in battery is always good, as is strong consistent lockup in battery as the round fires when the barrel needs to be locked up with the slide. A weak recoil spring might be a potential culprit in not providing consistent results for every shot.

4.) In order to get better feedback from your target I would suggest using a heavier card stock paper target, and buying some 3M "77" spray adhesive to glue your target to the cardboard target backer. The spray adhesive is something I picked up on from Pat Mac in class, so I will give credit where it is due.

The stuff works brilliantly, not only faster than staples or tape, the wind can't blow the target off, and by adhering the target to the cardboard; bullets do not rip the paper as they pass through. You get nice perfectly cut holes in your target, even with a flimsy thin paper target. The heavier card stock targets glued on the backer give phenomenal feedback, if your barrel is shot out and keyholing bullets this method will clearly tell you because the paper will not rip. Another upside is that the target will last a lot longer and takes target tape repairs a lot better.

Hope the suggestions are helpful. Good luck.

[MegademiC]

Awesome thanks. Couple things:
Definitely not a shot out barrel, less than 2500 rounds.
I run a weaker spring in the "old gun". The factory spec was 17, changed to 18, I didn't like the recoil so I went to a 16#. Think that could contribute?

As far as group size, I've never shot less than a 3-4" group (97 or 98 was my highest score 10 shot b8) at 25. I'm pretty much stuck at 4" regardless of ammo( I've shot 115 he fed aluminum, brass, 124 gr, 147 hst, etc. in fact the 115 he has been consistently better, and it's what I used as the baseline.

I have some Winchester 40 bonded I could never get to group better than 4", I'll try it with the new gun this weekend. I'll try benching the new gun as well.

[Coal Dragger]

If the springs are new and not worn out then I doubt that is a variable at this point.

A 3"-4" off hand group at 25 yards with an average pistol is pretty decent, remember the mechanical accuracy of your pistol is simply added to your arc of movement and whatever trigger control and grip variances you might have.

The best I've ever done was right around a 2" group offhand at 25 yards for 20 rounds with a Benelli MP95E in about 2003 when I was shooting competitive bullseye. That result was with a very very accurate match pistol, with match ammo, and is not one that I could produce on demand.

Try some ammunition loaded with Hornady XTP's, those have given me great results in a variety of calibers both factory loaded and my own reloads.

[Ron3]

I could see how 10 rounds made those holes.

I call that a "good" group and shooting from a compact to full size pistol.

[Spiffums]

Try a USPSA or IDPA target. It will show a grease ring so you can tell if you put 2 rounds side by side or if they are key-holing.

[MegademiC]

Ok, so in the OP I was using a 9mm conversion barrel ("match grade").
The below pics are that gun with factory 40 barrel, and another 40 side by side. Would you be able to chose one to move foreword with as a primary (I'm putting an rmr on one). The left is one gun, the right is another. Left is 2nd trip out, the right I've been shooting for years.

All groups are 10 shots at 25 yds:

Slow fire rest between each shot



Off hand slow but without breaks.


Rapid fire: left- 8 seconds. Right- 10seconds


Benched


From the low-ready

[zonerA1]

The only range i shoot handguns at is a Bullseye range...fixed target stands and fixed firing line, 25 yds only. Too far you say, i would disagree. All rounds are fired two handed offhand. After practicing at 25 yds 7 yard or less self defense shots are really easy

[556BlackRifle]

Interesting results. I like the right target better. You seem to shoot that pistol better for whatever reason - except for shooting benched. It would be interesting to swap slides between the pistols and see what results you get. In lieu of that experiment, IMO the one on the right seems to be the best target wise......

[MegademiC]

Interesting results. I like the right target better. You seem to shoot that pistol better for whatever reason - except for shooting benched. It would be interesting to swap slides between the pistols and see what results you get. In lieu of that experiment, IMO the one on the right seems to be the best target wise......

These are 2 different "platforms" so no swapping. Don't look at location, look at group size (I have not adjusted or verified center the sights for left gun. I have 100rds on that platform, 3k plus on the right.

I see less variability and stringing on the left. I group the right one tighter, but throw some flyers past the extremes of the left, so if you measure left group size it's less.

The benched was the kicker for me, it seems the right is a hardware problem, where the left is me opening up the groups.
The rapid fire I have an extra hit on paper with left gun.


Thanks for the feedback, thoughts on above?

[MegademiC]

The only range i shoot handguns at is a Bullseye range...fixed target stands and fixed firing line, 25 yds only. Too far you say, i would disagree. All rounds are fired two handed offhand. After practicing at 25 yds 7 yard or less self defense shots are really easy

I need to get to 50 next time and run a mag or two, then go back to 25. Last time I did that I improved...

Then slacked off and regressed.
It's a mental game, push it out and "impossible" becomes routine. We know what is possible on this board(most), but your average joe that has shot before thinks 25 FEET is long distance.