I am so going to open a can of worms here, but whatever.
Originally Posted by
themonk
I get it but Gen 3 PMAGS are being issued now. So back to my original question is it acceptable in mid 2017 If you pay good money for a top tier lower for them not to drop free?
In short, I am going to say it depends. Are we talking about every lower after the USMC adoption of Gen 3 pmags must instantly be drop free out of the box? In which case, I am going to say, yes, it is acceptable that Gen 3 mags don't since your timeframe is pretty unreasonable from a production stand point. Even a rolling change, can take time, not to mention the issue with product already produced, sitting on shelves, ect. In a year, that could be different. There is also the point, and please correct me if I am wrong, I was under the impression that the Gen 3 pmag was adopted solely by USMC, not the entire military across the board, at which point, what is actually mil spec? You got Army and your go Marines both can, and God knows branches do, spec things to different specs. So if you have one company building rifles for the Army(Yes, I know I am getting out there, but play along for a minute) and their spec doesn't need gen 3 pmags to drop free, while another company building rifles for USMC does, who is actually in spec and who is out? Also, do Black mags not dropping free not count since they aren't the "milspec pmags" due to color difference?(Yes, asinine but lets be honest, someone is going to call that one.)
To muddy the waters even more, I'll bring my personal experience into here and go I have lowers that for one reason or another will drop free gen 3 20rders, 40s, but not one run of 30s, but will drop free another run of 30s. Or which won't drop 20s free, but will drop 30s and 40s, another that will drop 40s free(FYI the 40s seem to drop free out of everything), and most of the 20s, and all but like 4 of my 30s. I have complete junk lowers that will drop everything free, I then have quality lowers, multiples, which one will drop things free without issue, the other doesn't. Some of the gen 3 pmags that I have that are from when they first came out are more prone to sticking than newer production mags as well which throws a real wrench in my system. What really causes head scratching is that of all my AR lowers, the Gen 3 pmags, 20 and 30 round mags, and a sole Brownells USGI mag are the only ones that ever failed to drop free what wasn't due to something exceeding wrong with the mag, and this can be debated on the Brownells mag. Gen 1 and 2 and MOE pmags, never an issue, OKAY, surefire, surefeed, C-products, Colt, Lancer, H&K steel, Cetme L mags(yes ****ing Cetme L mags) no name junk polymer Pmag knock offs, and others, never had an issue, or at least consistent issue, dropping free from any of the dozen or so lowers I've shoved them in, from DPMS, Stag, RRA, LWRC, Anderson, BCM, S&W, DD. Muddy the waters even more I have known some who wanted Gen 3 pmags that didn't drop free because they maintain that they need to retain every mag at all times so when the mags drop free they don't them.
Somewhere, I have the thought that somewhere along the line Magpul ran the gen 3s on the upper end of the milspec sizing. Maybe for function, maybe for durability, maybe for any number of other reasons. Factor in tighter tolerances for higher end guns or just the range of tolerances for lower end stuff, Anderson for example, and some drop free some don't. And one can argue that both Pmag and Lower are in spec and still not drop free because one is on the high end and one on the low. Does that make the product good or bad? Depends on your needs and preferences, also doesn't change the fact that sometimes mags hand up anyway, usually when you least want them too. Obviously drop free is nicer for most, but at the same time, if the issue is with a single mag type, I am personally hard pressed to deride the lower as being out of spec. This comes from an individual who has triple digit quantity of magpul mags by the way and use them, mostly Gen 2s as my primary mag.
Now, all of that said, should the standard magazine for the military become the Gen 3 Pmag, and the spec require that the magazine drop free... Maybe then it will become unacceptable for a lower not to drop free a Gen 3 pmag, assuming the magazine is in the proper spec after a given length of time allowing for the change over to go fully into effect. At which point we will then get to argue over the difference between commercial mag wells and mil spec mag wells and why some commercial lowers drop free the Gen 3 mags and some mil spec lowers don't and I will predict someone dregging up one of the old magpul dynamics videos and bring back the Costa flip as the solve all and shit will come full circle and then someone will decide to go back to the aluminum mags because retro, and think everyone kind of gets the point that there isn't a single end all be all solution here because I have not even gotten into the argument of what drop free entails, is it perfectly vertical, can it be canted up into workspace, does drop free require bolt to be locked back, or bolt forward(Have have this one pop up a few times over the years with Gen 3s, with one guy claiming the mag does drop free, while another claims it won't the one claiming it will has the bolt closed), is it considered drop free if the mag falls after a slight shake, can the mag be worn into dropping free, can the mag be easily modified to being drop free, if mod is required how long should it take to mod before becoming unacceptable and does said mod need to not affect use with other rifles, or can it affect other rifles? Some I know are reaching, but some people will likely make some of those arguments, whether you, I or anyone else agree with them or not. Like I said, muddy waters with no definite answer. Also, I don't know of any companies building their lowers around Magpul's Gen 3 spec, though I could very well be wrong there as well.
Don't want this turning into 10 page paper, so I'll leave off here. But, like I said, in short, it really kind of depends, and while I am pointing some stuff out, I am going to be the first to say i am not up on everything going on with the New Gen 3 Pmags and the mil. If asking personal preference, though, yes, I do prefer my mags to drop free, but also understand that sometimes they won't. Train accordingly.
"I don't collect guns anymore, I stockpile weapons for ****ing war." Chuck P.
"Some days you eat the bacon, and other days the bacon eats you." SeriousStudent
"Don't complain when after killing scores of women and children in a mall, a group of well armed men who train to shoot people like you in the face show up to say hello." WillBrink
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