SEAL's to admit women to BUDs

[WillBrink]

First the Rangers, now the SEAL's. Seams the SEAL aspect has not been getting the attention the Rangers did. Considering the drop out rate of BUDs by extremely competitive men in top condition that don't make it (approx 80%), the chances of a woman making it without any changes in standards, is damn close to zero in my non mil civi estimation. There's ongoing controversy as to whether the two ladies that made it through Ranger school did so without any assistance their male counterparts didn't receive:

First woman enlists to become a Navy SEAL

A woman will train with other potential officers this summer in hopes of becoming the first female Navy SEAL.
The candidate, a midshipman, and another woman have enlisted as the first female candidates seeking to join the Navy's special operations teams.
The latter is training for the Special Warfare Combatant-Craft Crewman program, or SWCC.

These women have already made history, but they still face a long road ahead of training and tests before they officially make the cut.
Women weren't allowed to serve in combat roles, including special operation forces such as the SEALs and SWCC, until January 2016. But there were no female applicants in the 18 months since that historic change until now.

Cont:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/21/us/fir...nd0453PMVODtop

[SHIVAN]

As long as the times, reps, and tests are all the exact same, and not modified for gender, let them all try.

[Eurodriver]

As long as the times, reps, and tests are all the exact same, and not modified for gender, let them all try.

But don't you get it? The standards were developed by men who had inherent biases! (Seriously - they say that)

As if bullets or explosions care what inherent biases your standard process was set by.

[WillBrink]

As long as the times, reps, and tests are all the exact same, and not modified for gender, let them all try.

I'm still not convinced that's case that happened with the Rangers. Why don't we start with sports at least? If there was ever a good place to try some social experimentation, allow women into the NFL combines and see if a single one survives. Have games between M/F pro sports teams in football, soccer, basketball. At least they are not getting anyone killed in the process. I believe on average 2-3 guys per year die in BUDs, but have to check that one. What happens when some woman dies at BUDs? People will freak the fu^$ out and demand a lowering of standards will follow.

[SHIVAN]

It can't be done with the times the same, the times, reps, and situations were designed with elite men in mind. Elite men, in any athletic pursuit, dwarf elite women. Sure, elite women sometimes can dwarf above average men, but that's not really what is running through BUD/S -- or is it?

I suppose an elite woman could meet the male standard, but I doubt it -- at least not while passing an HGH/Hormone drug screen.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Considering the drop out rate of BUDs by extremely competitive men in top condition that don't make it (approx 80%), the chances of a woman making it without any changes in standards, is damn close to zero in my non mil civi estimation.

Yes

As long as the times, reps, and tests are all the exact same, and not modified for gender, let them all try.

Sure, with all those assumptions. Some of us just wonder if it will all be exactly the same.

Even more un-PC question: assuming there is some incredibly capable woman who can make it through BUDs at the unchanged standards, how will her body hold up to years of the physical challenges SEALs undergo? All I read is that women's bodies, due to differences in bone density and muscle mass, suffer far more chronic injury from infantry tasks than men's bodies due. In the civilian world I've never heard of a women having a long career in something requiring lots of strength and some physical abuse, like firefighting or bricklaying. Not even someone who had such a career and is physically crippled, just literally have not heard of a woman having a long career in something like that, or even something not as hard on your body, like carpentry. Is it smart to put someone in a position where they are guaranteed to suffer permanent injury to a greater degree than a man would?

[chuckman]

And SWCC has a boat driver switching genders, going all-trans. I understand that sailors in his particular unit are none too thrilled.

[ABNAK]

Two women officers were slated to attend the Army's Special Forces Q-Course this past Spring. Wonder if they made it, or was it quietly swept under the rug?

[Coal Dragger]

If they made it through the Q-Course it would have been in the news. Seeing as how you haven't heard anything, I think you have your answer.

[kwelz]

As long as the times, reps, and tests are all the exact same, and not modified for gender, let them all try.

Kind of how I feel about it.

The requirements should never be lowered. But if a woman can hack it then I say let them do it. Yeah this means that for every 100 guys there may be 1 woman, Oh well. Equality means everyone gets a chance. Not that everyone gets the same result.