Bear defense pistols practical shooting test

[Ron3]

Assuming common guns, common barrel lengths and not pushing pressure/recoil levels:

10mm 200 gr @ 1100-1200 fps

.40 180 gr @ 1050 fps

.357 magnum 180 gr 1200 fps

.357 sig/auto 147 gr 1250 fps

9mm +p 147 gr 1100 fps

Gone hiking in Maine a few times with a Glock 19. Yea, felt a little under-gunned as far as critters go.

[WillBrink]

Assuming common guns, common barrel lengths and not pushing pressure/recoil levels:

10mm 200 gr @ 1100-1200 fps

.40 180 gr @ 1050 fps

.357 magnum 180 gr 1200 fps

.357 sig/auto 147 gr 1250 fps

9mm +p 147 gr 1100 fps

Gone hiking in Maine a few times with a Glock 19. Yea, felt a little under-gunned as far as critters go.

All things being equal (recoil, rnds fired, bullet design, etc), size matters and all the above approx same FPS, but the 10mm the heaviest of the group and far from overkill for say a large bear. The .357 mag out of a barrel that gets that FPS (6"?) may be adequate, down to 6 rnds compared to the G20. On the balance, I can see how the 10mm would seemingly make the most sense in that list and like the 9mm with two legged varmints, probably the minimum effective caliber on a large bear and that's due to the balance of shots on target compared to larger wheel gun offerings, again, not unlike 9mm on two leg varmints compared to say .40. Mostly thinking out loud on my part and ignoring it a valid response

[CDR_Glock]

Speaking for myself only, in the caliber size vs shot placement and number of rnds on target, I don't think I'd go smaller in bullet weight than the 10mm you're using in big bear country. Seems to me, the 10mm may strike the best balance, but I'd feel under gunned at .357 sig. and the G20 really surprised me with how controllable the recoil is compared to what I was expecting. I do LOL at the S&W 500 chest rigs I see people wearing. If you get that damn thing out and get it on target on time, I'm sure it would put a hurtin' on a bear, but good luck with the follow up shot.

I handle my 6.5" 500 S&W fine. The 454 Casull is a lot more Muzzle rise for me in the Alaskan version. My 7.5" Casull is impractical to carry.


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[CDR_Glock]

I wonder how my Coonan 357 Magnum 1911 would fare compared to a 10 mm.


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[Det-Sog]

Thanks Buzz for the great intel. Will brings up some great points too. On a side note, Alaskapopo has some NICE hardware.

My take "so far" on this thread... I still would not go in any black bear country "by choice" with anything smaller than my .357 Sig.. I think it would work on a black bear. If I was Grizzly or Alaska Brown territory, I'd have my compensated S&W 629 v-comp .44 Mag.. The muzzle rise on the comped .44 mag makes it manageable to dump the cylinder pretty quickly. Now, I have no trips to Alaska planned yet, my in-laws live in Grizzly territory and we go hiking up there a few times a year. The 300 grain .44 Magnum has been a time proven big game round. Almost 1300 FPS and almost 1200 LBS of energy.

Edit: After reading this thread, I might feel safe in Grizzly or Brown Bear territory with a 10mm, but do not have one and do not want to add an additional caliber to the collection. More sorting and another set of dies for the re-loader.

I am trying to work the logic from this thread though as justification to the wife while I "need" a new polymer .357 Sig for camping trips though... But Honey, my old duty P-229 is to nice to get dinged up while camping... Wish me luck. Daddy wants that Glock 33...

[WillBrink]

Thanks Buzz for the great intel. Will brings up some great points too. On a side note, Alaskapopo has some NICE hardware.

My take "so far" on this thread... I still would not go in any black bear country "by choice" with anything smaller than my .357 Sig.. I think it would work on a black bear. If I was Grizzly or Alaska Brown territory, I'd have my compensated S&W 629 v-comp .44 Mag.. The muzzle rise on the comped .44 mag makes it manageable to dump the cylinder pretty quickly. Now, I have no trips to Alaska planned yet, my in-laws live in Grizzly territory and we go hiking up there a few times a year. The 300 grain .44 Magnum has been a time proven big game round. Almost 1300 FPS and almost 1200 LBS of energy.

Edit: After reading this thread, I might feel safe in Grizzly or Brown Bear territory with a 10mm, but do not have one and do not want to add an additional caliber to the collection. More sorting and another set of dies for the re-loader.

I am trying to work the logic from this thread though as justification to the wife while I "need" a new polymer .357 Sig for camping trips though... But Honey, my old duty P-229 is to nice to get dinged up while camping... Wish me luck. Daddy wants that Glock 33...

As noted, in the OP, he tested the major big bore wheel guns and the 10mm allows faster more accurate hits and holds more rnds than the wheel gun. The real Q is then, is the 10mm using the right load adequate to penetrate the thick skull and hide of a big bear and penetrate deep enough? According to his tests, yes. I think he'd agree if you can dump 44mag accurately and quickly into a moving bear, then the 44 mag a solid choice. He found he was most accurate and fastest with the 10mm vs 44mag and other big bore wheel guns, and I do know he's an advanced level shooter.

If you get a chance, give us a vid following his shooting stage with the comped .44 mag. That would be cool.

[C-grunt]

Do you think a lighter weight hardcast in the 44 would have helped?

Something like a 240-260 grain at 1200 FPS.

[GJM]

If you are not going to rely on a warning shot or psychological body shot stop, you need to be able to penetrate the bear's skull and reach the brain, to reliably stop a bear attack with a handgun. It really becomes pass/fail, in your bullet is able to penetrate or not. A secondary but also important consideration, is how quickly can you place accurate shots, as Pat just tested, to give yourself the most chances of reaching the brain.

We tend to focus on caliber and velocity, but bullet construction is very important. One problem, is hard cast bullets, especially with a wide meplat, tend not to be as reliable in semi auto pistols, as FMJ bullets with more streamlined profiles. So when people say X caliber is sufficient, it assumes use of a properly constructed bullet. I would rather have a 9mm with an Underwood Lehigh penetrator bullet, or if it functioned reliably the Buffalo Bore 147 hard cast load, than a 10mm with a soft JHP.

[Det-Sog]

Will, I agree with you.

I'm going to shut up and keep listening to what else Alaskapopo has to add. HE lives and works up in the territory and I don't. He is making some great points. I don't know squat about bear defense and am learning a lot here. If I lived up there, I just might have to go out and buy a 10mm now.

[Alaskapopo]

C-grunt yes a lighter bullet would have helped as would a good trigger job on my 629 and most of all more revolver range time. But like I said I shoot autos a lot more and for me it was a more sound choice from the shooting aspect. To each his own. I think the 44 mag in a better revolver shooters hands would be fine. Its a personal choice the biggest point I was hoping to drive home was to discourage people form buying too much gun. I see it here in Alaska all the time. People with little to no handgun training buying belly guns in .454 or .500 Mag revolvers. Of course I see the opposite as well people taking their 45 auto out with JHP rounds as a bear gun thinking it will do fine but unfortunately it likely will not due to not having enough penetration.