Thoughts/opinions on my groups?

[Vegas]

Hey all,

Looking for some pointers on my shooting if you have any input. The groups below are respectable enough but I feel like I have room to improve based on how the groups are arranged and their inconsistency. They were shot earlier today with the following details:

Gun is Noveske Gen 2 lower, Vltor Emod and A5 RE, G2S trigger, BCM 16" SS410 Factory Upper, SiCo brake and Omega 7.62. I shoot 5 shot groups and are typically sub minute with my handloads at 100 yards. Shooting off a bench with a rear bag and a Harris notched leg bipod connected to a Troy/ Noveske keymod bipod stud. The loads are 69gr SMK, 23.6gr and 24gr Varget (the paper with 3 targets), LC brass with a Winchester SR Primer. COAL is 2.255. I haven't chrono'd these loads but I am thinking around 2650.

As far as technique, I try to shoot off the respiratory pause, not muscle the gun and let the gun rest naturally on the target.





Thanks for any input you can provide.

Cheers.

[Kansaswoodguy]

If I'm shooting for small group size at 100 yds I like 55gr flat base bullets. I don't know why but I shoot tighter 100 yd groups with that bullet style. I have really good luck with IMR 8208 with 73-77gr bullets you might try it with the 69's. You might try a scope level the xtreme hard core gear AR level is a good one I have many of them.

http://xtremehardcoregear.com/arlevel.html

[P2000]

When trying to shoot small groups I do a few little things that are helpful in wringing out a better group. Maybe you already do some of these.
First I shoot at a high contrast square target. It is just printed at home on regular computer paper from an Excel spreadsheet. It is a 1" hollow square that gives excellent contrast with the crosshairs, so you know you are aiming exactly dead middle of the square. The targets you posted will be hard to see in my opinion.
Then I spend a few minutes getting the parrallax adjusted perfectly. Without this your groups will definitely suffer. The high contrast square helps with adjusting parallax.
Finally, dry fire until you know you aren't moving the gun whatsoever during the shot.

What scope do you have? Pm me your email address and I can send you an Excel target file.



Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

[Lefty223]

Good tips, agree on the white-center targets.

Another TIP, I don't staple the target to the backer until the backer or target stand is already in position and I use a simple 6" or 8" level to ensure I post the target square & level to the horizon ... not to the backer/stand/frame, nor to the bench (as it may not be level, unless on BR-dedicated range).

[gunnerblue]

Nice groups. I'm very pleased with the accuracy of my own 410SS barrel. I would strongly suggest getting a chronograph if you're serious about accuracy. They are invaluable tools in making consistent loads. If you find your loads returning low extreme spread and , especially, low standard deviation numbers you can rule out certain handloading factors as possible causes in poor (relative) accuracy. They won't tell you everything, of course, but the more information the better.

[Vegas]

Thanks for the input guys, I realize I missed a couple of details after reading your responses. Using a Vortex Viper HS 2.5-10 SFP scope, the BDC style and the load I'm using is for eventual 200-600 yard shooting. Trying to get the kinks ironed out at 100.

If I'm shooting for small group size at 100 yds I like 55gr flat base bullets. I don't know why but I shoot tighter 100 yd groups with that bullet style. I have really good luck with IMR 8208 with 73-77gr bullets you might try it with the 69's. You might try a scope level the xtreme hard core gear AR level is a good one I have many of them.

http://xtremehardcoregear.com/arlevel.html

I have some 8208 to try. I have loaded the Hornady 75gr over 24gr Varget and had consistently sub minute results at 100. Out to 400, the groups drift to 1.3 - 2 MOA. I had decent results at 100 with the Nosler 55gr ballistic tip but not so good at longer ranges. Appreciate the suggestion on the scope level, that is an interesting looking doodad. Haven't seen that one before.

When trying to shoot small groups I do a few little things that are helpful in wringing out a better group. Maybe you already do some of these.
First I shoot at a high contrast square target. It is just printed at home on regular computer paper from an Excel spreadsheet. It is a 1" hollow square that gives excellent contrast with the crosshairs, so you know you are aiming exactly dead middle of the square. The targets you posted will be hard to see in my opinion.
Then I spend a few minutes getting the parrallax adjusted perfectly. Without this your groups will definitely suffer. The high contrast square helps with adjusting parallax.
Finally, dry fire until you know you aren't moving the gun whatsoever during the shot.

What scope do you have? Pm me your email address and I can send you an Excel target file.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

Scope was noted above, parallax is preset at 100 yards. It's not the ideal scope but it is what I have for now. Thinking of eventually getting the Bushnell Elite 3-12x in mil/mil for an easier life at the longer ranges. The target you posted looks interesting, thanks. I'll send you a note.

Good tips, agree on the white-center targets.

Another TIP, I don't staple the target to the backer until the backer or target stand is already in position and I use a simple 6" or 8" level to ensure I post the target square & level to the horizon ... not to the backer/stand/frame, nor to the bench (as it may not be level, unless on BR-dedicated range).

Leveling the target is a good idea and something I have wondered about. Am I getting a consistent sight picture so to speak? Slightly off level target isn't going to help.

Nice groups. I'm very pleased with the accuracy of my own 410SS barrel. I would strongly suggest getting a chronograph if you're serious about accuracy. They are invaluable tools in making consistent loads. If you find your loads returning low extreme spread and , especially, low standard deviation numbers you can rule out certain handloading factors as possible causes in poor (relative) accuracy. They won't tell you everything, of course, but the more information the better.

Thank you sir. The 410 barrel is decent and I have had groups less than .5 MOA at 100 and 200 from it. Consistency in my own shooting has been the issue. I have a chrono but didn't remember to take it yesterday. Last week I chrono'd the same bullet with H335 and was getting 2650-2700. They were loaded on a Dillon press and had a larger extreme spread in fps. The batch in the pictures above were handloaded and are around .2MOA more accurate than the H335 loads.

Keep the ideas coming!

Cheers.

[Kansaswoodguy]

Nice groups. I'm very pleased with the accuracy of my own 410SS barrel. I would strongly suggest getting a chronograph if you're serious about accuracy. They are invaluable tools in making consistent loads. If you find your loads returning low extreme spread and , especially, low standard deviation numbers you can rule out certain handloading factors as possible causes in poor (relative) accuracy. They won't tell you everything, of course, but the more information the better.

gunnerblue is spot on with the chronograph I can shoot some great groups at 100 yards and the SD be horrible. I almost always use my Magnetospeed on load work up anymore looking for very low teens or single digit SD's this equates to much better long range groups. I honestly only get a gun on paper at 100 yards anymore and do all the rest of my load development at 400yds shooting painted AR500 targets and the chronograph.

[Vegasshooter]

Shooting advise is really tough to give over the net. First, I wouldn't want to insult you by saying something too elementary, something that you possibly already know, and are doing. Secondly, without being there as you shoot, it's tough to determine what you may or may not be doing. Since you asked for opinions and help, I will throw out my .2 cents.
The vertical stringing could be caused by a couple of things. First could be inconsistent muzzle velocity. Simply not moving the same speed causes the bullets to impact different spots. The other cause could be breathing. Vertical stringing can be caused by breaking the trigger at different times in your breath cycle. I have always been taught to let the trigger break at your "natural respiratory pause". Usually I will take a breath, exhale, and break the trigger at the bottom of the exhale. In that moment when there is no air in my lungs. I find that gives me the most consistent position to break the shot.
Lastly, the overall openness of the group can be tightened up by focusing hard on your cross hairs, or dot. Many people focus on their target when shooting precision shots. I have found that staring hard at my cross hairs gives me the tightest groups.

I hope some of this helps. I'm certainly not an expert, and you may already know these things. Sometimes the smallest adjustments can make the biggest difference in our precision.

[Vegas]

I'm a pretty down to earth individual so I am always appreciative of advice, even if it is something I know as it takes time out of your day to respond. I have been working on being consistent with my breathing and breaking the shot at the correct time recently. The focusing on the cross hair is something I can try. I think I tend to focus more on the target. I try to be consistent in my loading but did not have the chrony with me that day. I find that quite often, I am 4 shots in a cluster with a flyer. Could just be a concentration thing also.

[17K]

I have a 16" BCM KD4 upper that was made for MK262. I shot a .43MOA group with it yesterday just playing around with an ATACR 4-16. It honestly averages around 1.2MOA with my best CBC MK262.

Lightweight guns like that are difficult to shoot well, ARs have a long lock time that contributes to that. I think you're doing about what that gun is going to do.

I have a .223 Wylde bolt gun built by TS Customs and it's a .5MOA hammer with that same ammo.