What's the M16 market doing these days?

[Bret]

I've been thinking for a while about getting a full auto. I'm definitely leaning towards an M16 type rifle because they seem to be the most versatile. Unfortunately, that seems to equate to them being significantly more expensive than other options. So what is the M16 market doing these days? Has it gone down some like the rest of the gun market? Or, is it holding steady or continuing to go up? The large machine gun dealers seem to have a decent amount of inventory on their websites. I don't remember it being that way a year ago. Of course that doesn't always equate to lower prices. Your insights are appreciated.

[hotrodder636]

I have been watching FA prices and inventory pretty heavily lately with a focus on an HK sear pack. There have been discussions on other sites about the "price bubble deflating" but I have not seen that yet. I have seen what seems to be a larger inventory though.

[JoshNC]

Decide what you want - factory Colt or non-Colt RR. You can find forged lower non-Colt RRs for around $18k right now. A Colt AR15 model 614 will run you $22-24k, Colt M16a1 about $25-30k depending on the model and dealer from whom you purchase.

M16s have not really dipped in price, nor have many other transferables. I think HK sears took a very slight dip (like $1-2k) but they were in a price jump phase and I think the rate of increase just slightly corrected.

Short of repeal of 922(o) and a couple other scenarios I won't mention in a public forum (don't want to give the hoplophobic statists any ideas), MGs will continue to appreciate significantly in the future. Especially M16s and HK sears/frames.

The M16 is an awesome awesome MG. While these have been posted previously I will just drop these here as well...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d5eI8TswUFg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SdWE5y-F3w

[ccosby]

Colt M16's were in a bit of a dip due to a large collection(many of which were remade by colt after the ban) went up for sale over the last year or two. They are going back up now that the collection seems to be mostly gone. M16a2's could be found for under 30 grand earlier this year, now a1's are in that range.

Now it is worth saying unless a large supply gets dropped the market doesn't really soften that much, it keeps going up. By the time you get it in your hands it is very possible that it will be worth a few grand more than you paid for it.

[Bret]

It definitely looks like I just need to go ahead and pull the trigger. Josh, you gave the names of some recommended dealers about a year ago. I'll contact them on Monday.

For those who have shot A1 and A2 lowers, which do you like better? I'd like on that would do FA and 3 shot burst, but I'm guessing those came around after the '86 ban.

Also, what are your thoughts on the Colt 9mm SMG's? Are they pretty much good to go forever like the M16 lowers or have they been known to develop issues?

[Slippers]

3 round burst on an M16 lower is terrible. The trigger feels like crap, and it also doesn't reset the burst count. This means if you hold the trigger long enough to fire 2 rounds and release, the next pull will only fire one time. This is in stark contrast to HK 4 position packs or a FNC, which reset to 3 rounds no matter how many you fire from the previous burst.

Another reason to go with the normal safe/semi/auto is that you can use the Geissele SSF, which gives you a 2 stage trigger in semi and a single stage in auto, and feels way better.

[Bret]

OK. Would I be correct to assume that if I bought an A2 lower I could replace the 3rd burst with FA so it would function as FA, but just be mismarked on the receiver?

[ccosby]

For those who have shot A1 and A2 lowers, which do you like better? I'd like on that would do FA and 3 shot burst, but I'm guessing those came around after the '86 ban.

Also, what are your thoughts on the Colt 9mm SMG's? Are they pretty much good to go forever like the M16 lowers or have they been known to develop issues?

No difference whatsoever in how a a1 vs a2 lower shoots. The a2 just has some extra reinforcements on it. The 9mm blowback uppers wear out lowers faster. I personally wouldn't buy a colt 9mm smg though. I'd buy the cheaper m16/a1/a2 and drop in a 9mm adapter in the magwell. If you do shoot 9mm I'd add the kns anti rotation pins.

OK. Would I be correct to assume that if I bought an A2 lower I could replace the 3rd burst with FA so it would function as FA, but just be mismarked on the receiver?

For what its worth a2 lowers did come with auto markings as well. Colt also sold a2's marked burst with full auto fire control groups from the factory(like the 727 carbine). I'd suspect at this point most of the burst marked m16's that are transferable have had their fire control groups swapped at this point to full auto.

As far as the lowers go the only difference is the markings. It is all in the trigger group and you can swap it for whatever you want. Most people don't like the burst ones. The Geissele and now I guess pof full auto triggers seem to be the way to go for many wanting an upgrade.

You also have the now discontinued colt 4 position setup. Some will engrave auto on a burst receiver in the 4th position and put those groups in. Gives you the 3rd burst and full auto. My understanding is that the semi auto on that trigger is worst than a standard one though.

[Bret]

ccosby, thanks for the detailed explanation.

I do have another question. I own several SBR's. Most I built myself and are on Form 1's. A couple are factory SBR's and are on Form 4's. I'm the original owner of all of them. I've never purchased a NFA firearm that was owned by another individual. I'm confused about how the process works. I see some individuals say that they have a rifle on a Form 4. Does that mean that it would have to go from a Form 4 to a Form 3 and then back to me on a Form 4? I know that transfers to individuals are taking about a year now. What about the times for the selling individual to transfer to their dealer and then the dealer to dealer transfers?

[Slippers]

ccosby, thanks for the detailed explanation.

I do have another question. I own several SBR's. Most I built myself and are on Form 1's. A couple are factory SBR's and are on Form 4's. I'm the original owner of all of them. I've never purchased a NFA firearm that was owned by another individual. I'm confused about how the process works. I see some individuals say that they have a rifle on a Form 4. Does that mean that it would have to go from a Form 4 to a Form 3 and then back to me on a Form 4? I know that transfers to individuals are taking about a year now. What about the times for the selling individual to transfer to their dealer and then the dealer to dealer transfers?

If the seller is in the same state, you can do a form 4 from him to you.

If out of state and currently on a form 4, they have to form 4 it to a dealer, who can then form 3 it to your dealer, and then form 4 it to you.

Market value of a machine gun being sold on a form 4 is usually a little less due to the extra time and additional cost of the first transfer to their dealer.