Decent 9mm (9x19) carbines as of 2017?

[SomeOtherGuy]

Thanks for all the replies!

Does the CZ Scorpion fit the requirements for length? My brother in law has a SBR'd pistol and it's an amazing little gun. I cant imagine their 16 inch carbine being worse.
I bet you can find an AR stock adapter or a fixed stock for it if the folding stock is a no go.

CZ Scorpion has been an interest. A few things:

1) They make models with a fake suppressor and with a brake. The fake suppressor model lists a minimum length under 26" while the brake model simply lists it as 26". I may call CZ to confirm the exact length of the brake model as never being less than 26.000".

2) Replacing the folding stock with a telestock tube, while a step backwards, would probably fix any length issues. What are the legal mechanics of that? Do I bring the adapter to the dealer and do it before delivery? Or find someone out of state who can do it before it's shipped into state?

3) I actually have a Scorpion pistol, so sharing magazines would seem positive. But I'm not totally in awe of the pistol - it's a perfectly solid blowback SMG derivative, but mostly plastic and not fancy. I'm not sure why this is an $800-1000 firearm, vs. a $300 firearm. If I'm going for a mostly plastic pure-blowback carbine, the $399 Kel-Tec with Glock mag capability seems a pretty interesting alternative.

[T2C]

I picked up a CMMG carbine https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...+16+M4+WASP+32 and I like it. It runs well on a wide variety of ammunition, including Federal aluminum case. I installed an Aimpoint ML2 on it and it will shoot 3" groups at 100 yards with Federal 124g FMJ off the bench.

[JasonB1]

Something you may want to read if my assumption is correct that you are wanting 9mm for lower recoil for kids.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...ared-to-5-56mm

[Achilles11B]

Another vote for the CZ Scorpion here. I own the braked version of the carbine. There are a variety of aftermarket stock adaptors available that would help your quest for 26" and the rifle has been nothing but accurate, reliable and fun to shoot.

[wanderson]

Pistol caliber carbines in my collection include CZ Evo Scorpion pistol, Beretta Cx4 Storm 9mm, High Point 4595, Kel Tec Sub2k 9mm, and a 9mm AR carbine & pistol.

At an $800 price point a Scorpion or Storm won't be easy. They're well built and worth it. Not cheap. Both of these are surprisingly accurate with 9mm out to 50 yards, and the Scorpion is crazy quiet with 9mm subs. I see why they're a good host for suppressors.

Sub2k is an odd duck. Ergonomics aren't great, terrible trigger, mediocre accuracy. But VERY light & compact when open and the size of a laptop when folded. Irons are low and check weld isn't great. Easier to find but still usually selling for over MSRP.

My HP 4595 is my second HP carbine. I don't like their pistols but their carbines are great. Pretty simple, reliable, and overall compact with the magwell in the grip. Factory irons aren't great but they come off easily so plan to add a cheap optic. if you find one used they usually sell cheap but there's not much to go wrong with them, and HP has VERY good customer service, even if you're not the original owner. Hands down the cheapest pistol caliber carbine available.

9mm ARs like PSAs are cheap right now with complete uppers for $250-$300. I picked up a compete Glock lower for $170. Blowback ARs are heavy and don't manage recoil as well as some of these other carbines but they come with a GI single stage trigger that's better than any of these above and have a million aftermarket accessories. Also a good option if a 5.56 AR might be your next purchase.

[HardToHandle]

Sub2k is an odd duck. Ergonomics aren't great, terrible trigger, mediocre accuracy. But VERY light & compact when open and the size of a laptop when folded. Irons are low and check weld isn't great. Easier to find but still usually selling for over MSRP.

9mm ARs like PSAs are cheap right now with complete uppers for $250-$300. I picked up a compete Glock lower for $170. Blowback ARs are heavy and don't manage recoil as well as some of these other carbines but they come with a GI single stage trigger that's better than any of these above and have a million aftermarket accessories. Also a good option if a 5.56 AR might be your next purchase.

Truth. I finally bought a Keltec Sub2k Gen 2 after wanting one for most of the last 15 years.... Total disappointment.
Embarrassing plastic trigger, stupid felt recoil compared to a 9mm AR in blowback and a surprisingly difficult manual of arms. I also have some doubts on the integral MLOK for consistent use with an optic. Triumph of cool but incomplete concepts over execution. Save your money.

I have a LWD 9mm in 16" and roll your own 9mm AR pistol. Both are enjoyable to shoot and boringly reliable.

[wanderson]

As for the sub2k it's a shame the irons aren't just a little taller. I have a laser on the lower rail and a reflex sight on a qd mount for the upper. But for it's designed purpose as a bug out/back up gun I'd rather not rely on batteries & electronics. For little ones with little hands the size & weight is perfect but the trigger is heavy & unpredictable. If you get one, MCARBO has trigger parts that get good reviews. The Midwest Industries swivel side mount doesn't get very good reviews, I think due to the handguard it's mounting to. The top & bottom pic rails are also where the two halves of the handguard meet. My rails have a slight curve/bulge in the center so I had to file it down slightly to get a flat spot to mount my optics.

two others I forgot to mention, I used to have a second gen Just Right carbine in .45. Accuracy was great, well made, but would occasionally misfeed. When it did, rounds would come up too high and catch on the upper edge of the chamber. I did all the mods JRC recommended including their mag springs and rounded the upper lip of the chamber with a file. Ran best with 185 gr. ammo but still never 100%. I think the 9mms have a better track record. I sold that for a TNW ASR in 10mm. Build quality isn't as good as the JRC but it's smaller & lighter and has been 100% in reliability & accuracy. The ASR with it's easy off barrel makes disassembly & cleaning much easier than the JRC although that's not a big issue in a blowback carbine. Either of these are $700-$800 depending on caliber, although they're easy to find.

if you get an ASR I'd recommend you check the two screws in the upper receiver that hold the lower on. Mine were loose enough I could back them out by hand, I hit them with some Loctite and they've not moved since. Removing the lower is as easy as an AR and you have access. TNW also has every part for their carbines available on their website, I bent one of the c clips on the lower retaining pin and ordered a replacement for 50 cents.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Thanks for all the replies!

Sub2k is getting very mixed reviews I see.

I mentioned I have a Scorpion pistol. I like it, but I just can't see spending $800+ for another one (carbine) given how simple they are. I think the quality is good, but even with good quality this should be a $300-400 firearm, not close to $1k. The same applies for most other pure-blowback designs.

Part of me wonders if I should spend double what I want to and get a MP5 clone or something like that. Also overpriced, but at least not a garage-workshop design.

Building a 9mm AR15 would be another option. I would prefer a lower that works with Glock mags, but would also consider a setup working with some other common and reasonably priced magazine type (Beretta 92, Uzi, Colt SMG). What brands/designs are solid and what should I stay away from? Are any of them cross-compatible or is each one a proprietary dimension?

[HardToHandle]

Thanks for all the replies!

Building a 9mm AR15 would be another option. I would prefer a lower that works with Glock mags, but would also consider a setup working with some other common and reasonably priced magazine type (Beretta 92, Uzi, Colt SMG). What brands/designs are solid and what should I stay away from? Are any of them cross-compatible or is each one a proprietary dimension?

Five years ago, I bought Lone Wolf carbine lower. I put a low cost 16" JSE upper on top, milling the 9mm bolt. Quite reliable though it has occasionally stumbled with cheap ammo if not lubed/wiped down in the 500-750 round count.

18 months ago, I ordered a dedicated Glock QC10 small frame lower for a 9mm pistol. Upper is a roll my own. While I never have got the bolt hold open to work in my build, I am quite satisfied with QC10. Reliable as well with Glock OEM, ETS and those crappy Korean 33 round magazines.

PSA has options, but I am always wary with them. Not experience with New Frontiers lowers either.

[UTShooter71]

I have the S2K in Glock .40. Great, light weight rifle. I have the Red Lion Precision front sight and flash hider. It also has the Tacticool Products recoil buffer insert and bolt tube cover. The only non-bolt on item is a 6" length of Picatinny rail I mounted on the bottom for an M3 light and vertical grip. I had this as my long gun/patrol rifle when I was a State Investigator (they only issued .40 Glocks). I have over 1K of rounds through it. Mostly at 25 yards but enough at 50, 75 and 100 to know it will hit what I'm aiming at. I have several ETS hi-cap mags.