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Thread: Aggressive Homeless People

  1. #51
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    In my younger and more idealistic days, I used to try to help those less "fortunate" than me. Understand that I grew up in a bad neighborhood and some would consider me and my family "poor". Still, I had a roof over my head and clean clothes to wear, even if there were patches. Thanks Mom. As a teenager I had a job making three dollars an hour and when asked for money, I'd offer to help them get a job too. Sometimes they'd just walk away, and sometimes I'd get a big F-U. I'd explain that I worked hard for my money and they could too. I was young and ignorant. I was raised with proper morals and a good work ethic. They, apparently, weren't. I'd always offer food. Some took it and some didn't.

    Soon I switched to trying to explain all this to them, about how hard I worked for my three dollars an hour, before taxes, and ask why I should just give them money for nothing when they could go earn it just as I had. That never went well. They didn't want my council.

    I had a business route that took me to the same area at the same time on the same day of every week. There was a "homeless" guy always in shabby clothes, just begging every Wednesday when I passed this same offramp at around 2pm. I saw him every week and his sign changed weekly. "Homeless vet", "out-of-work plumber from Philly", "laid-off-ironworker", etc… I would question him on the changes and we got to know each other for 2 minutes at a time while I waited for the light to change. I'd smile and nod and he'd smile and wave back, knowing that I knew the score. One day I was running a couple hours later than normal and I saw my "need bus fare back to Atlanta" guy walking away, headed toward the donut shop across the way. I figured he was gonna spend some hard earned cash on a coffee or something. As he neared the donut shop, he reached into his pocket and the tail lights on the clean BMW in front of him blipped as the trunk auto-opened. In one quick motion the dirty coat was tossed into the trunk and the clean one retrieved and put on. Then, into his luxury car and away he went. The next week I said, "Nice beemer." The smile on his face faded just a little.

    Nowadays, A stern "No." as they approach gets the job done. No conversation. No explanation. Just "No." In conjunction with the right posture and facial expression, this single word has served me well for a couple of decades now. Works all over the whole country too. No need for escalation or explanation.
    "Literally EVERYTHING is in space, Morty." Grandpa Rick Sanchez

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletdog View Post
    Nowadays, A stern "No." as they approach gets the job done. No conversation. No explanation. Just "No." In conjunction with the right posture and facial expression, this single word has served me well for a couple of decades now. Works all over the whole country too. No need for escalation or explanation.
    Solid advice. I have learned over the past few months that attempting to engage them in conversation just drags you into their sphere of manipulation. A stern "NO" with not a hint of associated reasoning or narrative cuts them off like a bad shortwave radio station.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Well once again, not always. In fact FL SYG laws specifically protect you from being sued. Again, not trying to dismiss or diminish the point you are making, just saying it doesn't always apply.

    The key in your example is homeless people pissing or shitting on your property probably doesn't satisfy the "in imminent fear of death or serious injury" qualifier. That said, if you go run said homeless person OFF of your property and in the process they become confrontational and aggressive and satisfy the qualifications for deadly force in SYG state such as FL, well then that person is going to be pissing with Patrick Lavoie.

    Now if you happen to reside in CA, NY or a few other states, very different rules apply. But in FL Lavoie is dead even though he never physically even touched Murdock and not only was Murdock never arrested or charged, he was never sued and the only aftermath of the deadly force shooting was giving police a statement of events and then going home to eat dinner. I don't think he ever even retained a lawyer.

    This is also why Zimmerman was initially not arrested, it was only when it looked like his statement "might" not be factual that he was arrested and investigated.

    Arizona has similar protection.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Let me clarify, you may not be charged with a crime but you will be sued so be prepared for tens of thousands of dollars legal fees, losing your job, becoming a pariah in your own community. When I read comments about people "about to pull a gun" on some homeless people for shitting and pissing on their property. That lack of understanding about the aftermath of a shooting really needs to be looked at more often.

    Not going to shoot someone for "shitting and pissing on property" or any of the other numerous thing I see these scum bags do, the pulling the gun/shooting someone comes when the asshole gets aggressive and acts like they are on the attack, then yes I'll shot them.
    Gettin' down innagrass.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by titsonritz View Post
    Not going to shoot someone for "shitting and pissing on property" or any of the other numerous thing I see these scum bags do, the pulling the gun/shooting someone comes when the asshole gets aggressive and acts like they are on the attack, then yes I'll shot them.
    Amen. A person who shits on someone else's property number one has no regard for anyone but themselves. Add to that drug addiction or mental illness and potentially you have an unstable, violent confrontation just waiting to happen. You have to be prudent and only draw on someone who poses an actual physical threat to you, but you are a fool or ignorant if "pulling a gun" isn't at least crossing your mind as a possible necessity if the situation escalates.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletdog View Post
    Nowadays, A stern "No." as they approach gets the job done. No conversation. No explanation. Just "No." In conjunction with the right posture and facial expression, this single word has served me well for a couple of decades now. Works all over the whole country too. No need for escalation or explanation.
    I agree this does work about 98% of the time, it is the other 2% this thread is about.
    Gettin' down innagrass.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshNC View Post
    My suggestion was based upon my belief that fast food is disgusting and unfit for consumption, not on the state of homeless people swarming upon said establishments.
    This might be on a tangent, but fast food is not the issue. Its American mentality. Some people may think that Burger King, McDonalds, KFC, etc is unhealthy, but how is that different from buying fries from Denny's, or eating pizza at home, drinking Soda at work, or pigging out at Golden Corral (or any other buffet/restaurant)?

    Its not accurate to say that fast food is disgusting and unfit because similar food can be eaten at home or any other non-fast food restaurant. But I digress, and this is a subject for another thread...


    Quote Originally Posted by titsonritz View Post
    I agree this does work about 98% of the time, it is the other 2% this thread is about.
    In a situation where you feel your life may be in danger, e.g. the person is bigger than you, there are multiple beggars, or you are a small female, the use of force may be necessary and warranted (fatal or non-fatal depending on the situation) if the aggressor does not desist.

    In my experience, most of these homeless/bums/beggars would normally go away once you tell them a firm "No" and acknowledge their presence. But we all know that there are less-than savory places you can find yourself in when that may not work.
    Last edited by JusticeM4; 08-19-17 at 12:38.

  8. #58
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    I am in Austin the hippie homeless capitol of the world... I would never tell anyone to not defend themselves and I have worked in crappy places on 5 continents and dealt with homeless and panhandlers or what ever you wish to call them everywhere. I have seen organized crime syndicates use them to gather $ for them and seen them ask for $ for drugs and all sorts of abuses, but at the the end of the day they would rather be healthy and have a home. Most are mentally ill whether from birth defect or injury and MANY from medical malpractice and we should understand they are broken people not fully usually responsible for their own thought processes. Does it mean you must tolerate them at your peril or allow them to harm your home or your business? No! But have some compassion they are BROKEN and if they could be healthy they would choose to be. They were made in God's image like all of us and they are mentally broken or mentally broken and self medicating in desperation to try and not feel the brokeness... if you really want them to go away look to your local community activists (most likely Christian Missional Communities) and see if they can help you deal with them or how you can help them get them help and out of your hair. God Bless!
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4Fundi View Post
    I am in Austin the hippie homeless capitol of the world... I would never tell anyone to not defend themselves and I have worked in crappy places on 5 continents and dealt with homeless and panhandlers or what ever you wish to call them everywhere. I have seen organized crime syndicates use them to gather $ for them and seen them ask for $ for drugs and all sorts of abuses, but at the the end of the day they would rather be healthy and have a home. Most are mentally ill whether from birth defect or injury and MANY from medical malpractice and we should understand they are broken people not fully usually responsible for their own thought processes. Does it mean you must tolerate them at your peril or allow them to harm your home or your business? No! But have some compassion they are BROKEN and if they could be healthy they would choose to be. They were made in God's image like all of us and they are mentally broken or mentally broken and self medicating in desperation to try and not feel the brokeness... if you really want them to go away look to your local community activists (most likely Christian Missional Communities) and see if they can help you deal with them or how you can help them get them help and out of your hair. God Bless!
    Mental illness only accounts for some percentage of these people we've been discussing. I agree that mentally ill people need help, but some of these people are simply morally bankrupt and devoid of the sense of right and wrong that most of us are endowed with. Opportunistic predators scavenging on the weak, unaware and stupid among us.
    "Literally EVERYTHING is in space, Morty." Grandpa Rick Sanchez

  10. #60
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    I've worked at an actual, church based homeless outreach center and at a shelter in the past and am here to tell you that substantially more than an insignificant minority of those folks are doing nothing but actively gaming the system to get whatever they can out of it. A huge percentage of the homeless are indeed homeless because they wore out their welcome with their entire network of family/friends. They wore out their welcome with others who would have otherwise cared about them by being antisocial parasites who care about no one but themselves and their immediate, basest needs.

    The overwhelming majority of the homeless I come into contact with on a daily basis spend their entire existence trying to get something for nothing. They are, for the most part, utter failures at life because they are utterly devoid of the ability to make sound decisions and unable to come to grips with the fact that it is largely their own fault. Many of them have extensive criminal histories with the majority of the offenses being assaultive crimes or theft. The bottom line is that as a rule, they are the type of people that don't play well with others. The end result is that they eventually get shunned by everyone they come into contact with. I equate them in some ways to pedophiles in the sense that they absolutely cannot be fixed. ETA...That does not make me feel an ounce of compassion for them.
    Last edited by LoboTBL; 08-20-17 at 11:17.
    ~Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
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