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Thread: OTMs vs Bonded SP

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonshot View Post
    Interesting observations, and it mirrors what I have read and seen before. I've begun moving away from OTMs and into SPs (62gr GDSP), but now what do I do with my existing stash of OTMs? I have a fair supply of 68gr and 75gr Black Hills Match HPs (their name for OTM), all in .223.

    As a self defense round, what purpose do they now serve? SPs have a longer effective range and are barrier blind. Have OTMs become little more than expensive training ammo?

    What should be done with them? Keep them for the proverbial rainy day? Use them for range and training ammo? Try and sell them for whatever I can get to increase my supply of SPs? I don't know what they would bring, but I know I could ever make enough to buy a like number of SPs.
    Its not like they're completely obsolete. My SP to OTM ratio is like 1:10. Use it as 2nd line ammo or SPR ammo, OTMs are match bullets too so dont forget that.
    Last edited by vicious_cb; 09-02-17 at 14:08.

  2. #12
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    OTM's claim to fame was mostly being deemed legal for military use. That and the performance of heavier OTM loads was found to be reasonably barrier blind and have more consistent terminal performance than ball.

    Solid copper and bonded are like the next generation, offering the most consistent terminal and barrier performance.

    If you want to make the change to a bonded load you can keep the OTM for longer range shooting, or find someone who shoots long range to sell them to.

  3. #13
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    I have read (can't confirm) that the 68gr Black Hills has a fragmentation range of around 65 yards (from a 16" barrel), while the 75gr Black Hills has a fragmentation range of around 115 yards from the same 16' barrel.

    I bought the 68gr when I had a 1 in 9 twist barrel that wouldn't give me much consistency with 75gr rounds. The 68gr was, however, the most accurate round I've fired. At 100 yards, my 75gr opens up twice as much as the 68gr.

    I realize these OTMs have not suddenly turned into whiffle balls, but I don't see a real need for long range accuracy (I'm not a sniper). My AR is a 200 yard gun, or less. Actually much less. Realistically under 50 yards. Either round should do, but the 75gr gives me a little more leeway. If I could only keep one, it would be the 75gr. However, my GDSPs give me even more leeway, and it might make sense to try and sell both stashes of OTMs to fund either more 193 for training or more SPs for storing.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonshot View Post
    I realize these OTMs have not suddenly turned into whiffle balls, but I don't see a real need for long range accuracy (I'm not a sniper). My AR is a 200 yard gun, or less. Actually much less. Realistically under 50 yards. Either round should do, but the 75gr gives me a little more leeway. If I could only keep one, it would be the 75gr. However, my GDSPs give me even more leeway, and it might make sense to try and sell both stashes of OTMs to fund either more 193 for training or more SPs for storing.
    I'd keep what you have, use it for practice/spares/contingency, and replace it with whatever you choose by attrition.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonshot View Post
    I have read (can't confirm) that the 68gr Black Hills has a fragmentation range of around 65 yards (from a 16" barrel), while the 75gr Black Hills has a fragmentation range of around 115 yards from the same 16' barrel.

    Isn't the fragmentation range of M193 around 100 yards?

  6. #16
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    While I do agree with the capability of some of the SP terminal ballistics, I do think about how the relationship can change for stoppages between a SP round and a non SP rounds as a trend for use when looking at MRBS.
    Exposed lead and/alloys of have not been beneficial in a few ways in this system as a whole.
    We could look at the some items, as in feed ramp angle, cyclic timing of certain events, and of the surface of exposed projectile lead among others.
    With the current trend of most carbines, we can end up in a worse place than what we have to be in for a few reasons. With that current carbine trend being common now, it would seem that a possible end user would be better advised to look at the system and capabilities of the variables to make a possible SP worthwhile or not for the needs required.

  7. #17
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    I think a big part of the reason OTM rounds, namely the MK318 and MK262, enjoy their popularity is owed to military use. The same goes for Colt rifles, SOPMOD stocks, etc. There's a segment that equates "military" with "best". For others there's the nostalgia of using what they had while serving. And then some who may genuinely find it's the ideal selection for their own purpose/need/preference. This isn't to say that any of these aren't decent choices; regardless of the reasoning behind the choice. Just that some shooter's selection of any of the above examples may be driven by something other than performance vs the competition.

    Specifically for OTMs, it's fairly apparent that the military "mystique" plays a decisive role. The 318 and 262 make plenty of people's list when it comes to naming their preferred defensive loads. While other HP/OTM rounds get an occasional mention, like those from Hornady, it's pretty lopsided in favor of the military projectiles. In terms of terminal effects, the difference between a SMK and something like a T2 TAP is negligible. Certainly not enough to account for performance to be the clear factor in the community's favoring of SMK projectiles.

    Now, when it comes to accuracy at greater distance, these OTM type rounds definitely outperform their bonded SP counterparts. Yet, if we're talking about a purely civilian world SD application, long range precision is somewhat of a curious consideration.

    Even in the unbelievably unlikely scenario where a target needs to be engaged at a few hundred yards, if the shooter is capable, a SP loading won't stand in the way of putting that round on target. SP loads are hardly a new development in the firearms community. Hunters have been using them effectively for years; at all sorts of distances.

    Like others stated, in spite of my strong preference for bonded/SP/copper projectiles, I won't be throwing away my OTM/HP loads. They are excellent for accuracy and wouldn't leave me feeling "under gunned" if they're all I had access to in a SD situation.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    OTM's claim to fame was mostly being deemed legal for military use. That and the performance of heavier OTM loads was found to be reasonably barrier blind and have more consistent terminal performance than ball.
    I was under the impression that even a light barrier could stop, or at least reduce the penetration of an OTM, at least up to 77gr - one reason they're deemed "safer" than handgun or subgun HPs in an urban environment for entry teams.

    My most likely plan of action is to try and sell my 68gr Black Hills (1600 rounds) or use them in my next class - whichever occurs first. The 75gr Black Hills would go into my reserve stash.

    If you're not independently wealthy (and I'm not), it's always a choice. How many rounds do I really need in reserve vs what else might I get if I can sell my excess OTMs (more training, newer vests, another RDS or a night vision system).

  9. #19
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    6 mags in a vest should be more than enough for anything short of the end. Add a bandolier with another 6 to take it over the top and that's only 360 rounds.

  10. #20
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    Instead of OTM, ballistic tip is a much better choice for non barrier ammo. There are finally enough good ones that you can fragment at lower velocity than OTM, have the OTM accuracy, better BC than OTM, and consistently fragment in under an inch, all with adequate penetration. To me, that is the death of the OTM. There is no reasin to stock any OTM foe me at tbus point. Price is currently the only issue for some of the projectiles.
    Last edited by DevL; 09-22-17 at 22:24.

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