Help me choose a new CCW pistol!

[w3453l]

The full sized P2000? Isn't that a little on the large side?

The full sized P2000 is about the size of a G19, so I wouldn't say it's on the large side. The SK version of the P2000 is a subcompact though, and I think that is where the misconception of the P2000 being large comes from. In other words, there is no G17 or "duty sized" P2000.

[Potss]

Interesting, never knew that about the P2000.

Thanks for the feedback, I have a full sized Px4 in .45ACP that I like, but honestly I didn't feel like the recoil was reduced a whole lot compared to my 1911s or H&K45. Maybe it is more noticeable in 9mm and shorter config. I almost jumped on the px4 Compact Carry, but the barrel going so short in such a large gun because of the rotating barrel seems like a hard trade to swallow, especially against the other good options. Same for the Grand Power P11.

I'm going to try to get my hands on as many of these as I can. I can say I was extremely impressed by the Steyr L9A1 I shot the other day, way more so than the CZ P10C. But I'm not sure if the S9A1 would carry over the extremely low recoil.

[w3453l]

Another thing that often gets overlooked is that P30/VP9 15 Rd magazines fit in both the P2000 and P2000SK, just like full-size G17 magazines fit in the G19/G26. You can buy grip extensions to go over the magazines.

[ralph]

Another thing that often gets overlooked is that P30/VP9 15 Rd magazines fit in both the P2000 and P2000SK, just like full-size G17 magazines fit in the G19/G26. You can buy grip extensions to go over the magazines.

Yup I bought one of the grip extensions to try in my USPc I picked up about a month ago, took one of my spare VP9 mags and slid the extension over it, it worked fine.

[DD173]

Cz P10C
Grand Power P1 Ultra
They both come back to target faster than anything else. No mods

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[hile]

Of those listed, I'd go with a Glock 19 MOS or a G19 Gen5 and have the slide milled. If your RMR is one that the MOS supports, I'd probably go that route. A P229 would work too, but having carried that concealed all day, it's quite a heavy piece of gear.

[1168]

Thanks for the feedback, I have a full sized Px4 in .45ACP that I like, but honestly I didn't feel like the recoil was reduced a whole lot compared to my 1911s or H&K45. Maybe it is more noticeable in 9mm and shorter config. I almost jumped on the px4 Compact Carry, but the barrel going so short in such a large gun because of the rotating barrel seems like a hard trade to swallow, especially against the other good options. .

I've heard that the .45 PX4 isn't as good at reducing recoil as the 9 or 40.

I'm with you about short barrels on big guns. Whenever I need a gun smaller than a PX4 or G19, (for concealment reasons) I don't just need a shorter barrel. It also has to be thinner. My 3.5 in barrel gun is a single stack, and I see no point in subcompact double stack guns.

[skipbo32]

get a M&P Shield

[Potss]

Update is as follows.

Over the last month, I have been going to various rental ranges, borrowing from friends and family, and generally trying out as many pistols from my list (and off it) as possible against my Cajunized CZ P-01 as the constant. This process against reminded me of the massive importance of try before you buy especially with carry guns. Some expected favorites didn't do so well, and others really shined as I will detail below. But I want to make a serious point, that for what I've spent on rentals and ammo in the last month, I could easily have purchased some of the firearms on here and I would have been much worse off for doing so. If you have the means, it is well worth renting and/or borrowing as many possible CCW pistols as possible before you choose. I did the same thing 6 years ago when I went from a G19 to a CZ, and this recent process just reminded me against how important it is.

Alright, enough rambling, onto the notes. Disclaimer: all results are just my personal experience with my hands and training (90% of which is on glocks, steyrs, and CZs). Yours may be radically different, and I encourage you to not take my results as gospel, but try for yourself. Pistols I got to test (9mm unless denoted): S&W M&P9c and M&P 9c 2.0, Ruger American full size, H&K P30 V3, H&K VP9sk, H&K USP .40 full size, Springfield Armory XD(m) Compact 9mm, Steyr M9-A1, Glock 19 Gen 4, Glock 29 Gen 3 10mm, Beretta Px4 Storm Full size .45, Kimber Ultra CDP, Colt LW Commander, Sig P229 Nitron, Walther PPQ.

Pistols ranked in terms of accuracy at 7m-25m (slow and fast): Kimber>Colt>Springfield XDM>>CZ P-01>HK P30>SIG P229>Steyr M9A1>VP9SK>Walther PPQ=Glock 29>HK USP>Glock 19>M&P 2.0>Ruger American>Px4 Storm>M&P9c.

Pistols ranked in terms of trigger: Kimber>CZ (cajun)>Springfield XDM>Colt>Walther>Glock 19 (DK Custom)>Steyr>P229>HK VP9>Px4 Storm>Glock 29>HK P30>HK USP>Ruger American>>>M&Ps (2.0 not much better).

Pistols ranked in terms of ergos under firing, perceived recoil, and speed: Kimber>Colt>Springfield XDM>Steyr>Glock 19>CZ>>M&P2.0>>HK P30>PPQ>VP9sk>Ruger American>Px4 Storm>Glock 29 (no pinky extension in 10mm)>>HK USP.

There are some real standouts here that have helped me narrow my list considerably. First, Kimber has had QC issues for years now that have firmly dropped it out of the "high end" 1911 market. But this one was damn near perfect for hundreds of rounds, and holy shit did it shoot stunningly well in my hands. The officer frame was too small for my hand, so I will get a commander if I get a 1911, but even with that it was printing ragged holes at 15y mag after mag, and just felt so damn buttery smooth in recoil it was almost like I could track the front sight the entire time, making it very fast. Had an amazing trigger too. The Colt LW Commander wasn't far behind but even though it was larger the trigger and barrel (I think) left it lagging behind the kimber most of the time. Both really made the 1911 platform look very attractive even with all the obvious drawbacks like capacity and mags.

The other large standout is the Springfield Armory XDM. When I loaded up 13 rounds and went to shoot, my first five rounds tore one ragged hole in the center of an IPSC target's head at 10m, and that was without the pinky extension! I don't know why this pistol doesn't get talked about more than it does, because the trigger is hands down the best striker fired trigger I've felt. This is even when directly compared with the lauded PPQ, and a G19 with the DK custom carry trigger. It also has a deceptively low bore axis, and wasn't nearly as "flippy" (although none of the 9mms were really flippy, just compared to one another) as say the VP9sk or even P-01. What stunned me even more was the price, these things can be picked up for under $400!

Lastly, I have some general comments about most of the guns I shot:

- My EDC CZ P-01 with Cajun Pro & CZC grips: I thought it was going to clean house, and it didn't. Was always in the top 5, mostly in the top 3, but still lagging more than I would have thought or liked, and that is after thousands of rounds training. I have almost no time on 1911s and still outshot it, same with the XDM very shockingly. Now has me considering changing up my EDC entirely.

- S&W M&P9c: Terrible trigger, ergos are great though. I don't know if an APEX would fix this and how well. Also L&M Precision said they've seen high failure rates with APEX triggers in these.

- S&W M&P9c 2.0: Sand paper grip, I wouldn't ever want to wear this without a T-shirt. Trigger still awful, but not quite as bad as the 1.0s. Again, unsure of how much better the APEX would make it.

- Ruger American full size: A bland pistol which managed to be middle of the back of the pack in almost everything.

- H&K P30 V3: Disapointingly heavy and long DA and stage-y. SA is alright but not great. Not sure if Gray Guns would fix this, but 10-12 weeks and $365 for an already expensive gun doesn't make it very appealing. Also "flippier" than others. And the mag release was difficult.

- H&K VP9sk: Same as the P30 but with more flip. However the VP9sk trigger was better, but not as good as the Steyr or PPQ or XDM. Mag relase somehow even worse.

- H&K USP .40 full size: Somehow felt less controllable than the Glock 29 10mm with no pinky extension. I'm not sure why people spend the money they do on these.

- Springfield Armory XD(m) Compact 9mm: See notes above, a real standout and serious contender.

- Steyr M9-A1: Better than a Glock in every way, but a little top heavy without mag. Great trigger OOTB, again don't know why these aren't more popular. Almost as good as the PPQ trigger. Sadly this and the smaller S9-A1 are disqualified because they cannot mount a red dot on the slide.

- Glock 19 Gen 4: With the DK trigger this was very pleasant to shoot. Fast as well. But not very accurate. Came away with the same impression I did 6 years ago "why would I own one over a CZ P-01?"

- Glock 29 Gen 3 10mm: Amazingly good pistol. Even without a pinky extension it was a ton of fun to shoot, more than accurate enough, and felt like a much larger gun than it is (in a good way). Not the best trigger, but plenty of aftermarket for that. Speed was surprisingly good for 10mm, and has me seriously considering one for EDC or just a woods gun. I have no idea why people carry revolvers when the Glock 29 exists.

- Beretta Px4 Storm Full size .45: A pretty heavy DA trigger, but the SA was great. Not impressed by the felt recoil, which is supposed to be a selling point. The smaller compact carry is also disqualified for being a PITA to mount an RMR to the slide, but I wouldn't have gotten one anyways as these are FAT pistols.

- Kimber Ultra CDP & Colt LW Commander: see notes above, never thought I'd carry a 1911 but I might now.

- Sig P229 Nitron, great shooter, but flippier than the CZ and significantly larger. Came away with the same impression as 6 years ago "why would I own one over a P-01?"

- Walther PPQ: With all the hype I was pretty excited to try it. Trigger let me down a bit (although it is good, the XDM felt better to me) and the "flippiness" let me down more. It is also pretty sizeable, reminded me of the P229 in that respect.

Pistols I didn't get to try but still want to: CZ P10c, Stryk-B, and an M&P with an Apex trigger.

That is it for now, I will make another follow up thread with specifics on my next moves, hopefully after trying the P-10c.

Feel free to ask questions, discuss, and make any comments or recommendations with the above information you want.

[sundance435]

We had different experiences with the VP9SK. I love mine - perceived recoil was less than other similar 9s, fit in hand was great with the finger extension but still comfortable to shoot without it. I will agree that the paddle mag release is a little more awkward on the SK, but I still prefer it over a button. I may have to try one of the XDms. I've owned a couple XD's over the years and I found them to be unwieldy, especially the full size .45. I also didn't care for the bore axis and I perceived more recoil.

If you like the Kimber, get it. Personally, I don't see myself owning another Kimber never trusted any that I owned. However, if the Colt is a close second, maybe give it another chance. I've owned many Colts and I've yet to find a better out-of-the-box, non-high-end 1911. I wouldn't give a second thought to carrying a Colt, but I'd always have doubts about a Kimber.

I'd also give a Gen 5 19 a chance before you buy. I've only handled one in the store, but it's my next purchase. Felt fantastic and I loved the trigger.