I haven't been paying enough attention - M1 Carbine

[Mr McSimon]

Yesterday at a gun show I noticed a couple of M1 Carbines for sale, but was shocked at the price the guy had on them. I asked him about it, and found out that apparently the value has increased over the years, even to the extent that the Carbines are valued higher the Garand's now? That's what the guy said anyways.

My shock at the price came because back in the 90's I bought one for around $150, not because I was looking to be a collector or anything like that, but mainly because I didn't have more money to spend on any "better" military style fun gun, and the Brady Bill was looming. I didn't really know much about M1 Carbines at the time (or since), just that they were old WWII weapons. The seller did tell me that it had been rebuilt and you could tell because it was an M1 receiver on an M2 style stock. He also told me that it had been re-imported to the US from old overseas surplus, probably from Korea. I've always been happy with the gun, It's really fun to shoot, lightweight, and very accurate. Really everything that I wanted that day, including the 30 round mags that came with it.

So, after seeing those price tags yesterday, I figured it was long past time to know more about my gun. It's been a fun day today, learning about the M1 Carbine in general, and about my weapon in particular. It's almost like I'm on the Antiques Roadshow or something, but now, just like at the end of each segment on that show, I'm hoping to know more about value. Ofc during my research I've gotten some sort of idea what these guns are going for now, but I trust the knowledge in this community and figure short of an actual formal appraisal by a qualified gunsmith, this is where I'll get the best, most updated info.

All that said, I'd sincerely appreciate peoples opinions, comments, and corrections. Good and bad. I'd also appreciate any kinds of recommendations about anything I might consider doing to maintain or increase the value not only from a collector's standpoint, but also just for fun and cool factor. I've already realized I'd better get a sling and buttstock pouch for it.

Other than that, here's what (I think) I've learned about this gun so far....

1) Clearly stamped on the barrel is Blue Sky / Arlington, VA., denoting that this rifle was indeed re-imported to the US after being rebuilt and re-parkarized. I've read that some of these deep BS stamps tended to warp or deform the barrel, but that doesn't seem to be the case on this gun as it shoots true. I've also read that the Blue Sky stamp is generally less than desirable and can affect value, although, there are some clues that the stamp is becoming more accepted as long as it didn't effect the overall condition of the barrel? True or wishful thinking?


2) Barrel is stamped with the flaming bomb mark and "Underwood 11-42" denoting an original USGI barrel made in November of 1942. I'm no expert and don't know how to properly measure wear, but when I look at the inside of the barrel, there is no corrosion or pitting, and the rifling groove looks deep well defined. Also, front bayonet lug was added after the re-fitting as barrels made in 1942 were not originally fitted with lugs. There is also a "F" stamped into the top of the barrel, just above the seam where the lug strap wraps around the barrel.


3) Receiver is stamped with I.B.M. marks (under the rear sight) and serial number, further confirming the mixed reconditioned parts. Apparently this was standard practice and affects value less than you would think. On a personal note, I had no idea IBM was a WWII rifle manufacturer. I guess at the time ALL industry re-tooled for the war effort, but it's still a cool footnote to history that I own a fighting weapon made by a computer company.


4) I also see an "M" stamped into the magazine release.


5) Looking down into the receiver from the top, there seems to be some wear on the left side, and there's a little burr that I've never noticed before that looks like it could be filed down a bit. The receiver is also a little loose in the stock, I've never noticed any kind of issue when firing though.



6) There are also a couple of pins set into the lower part of the stock on the left side, about midway down the handguard. What they're for I have no idea, I'm assuming some sort of repair.







I haven't broken the gun down to inspect the bolt or any other internal parts, so there are probably other markings I haven't seen. If anybody would like to direct me to something specific I should look at, I'll get to it, otherwise I think that's it. I'm excited to learn more, so by all means, please post your replies, give additional information, and ofc if anybody want's to throw out some estimates on value, I'm interested in anything more I can learn.

[mack7.62]

The "F" on the barrel is a bad stamped "P" proof mark, also likely the barrel is original to the gun, Underwood made a lot of extra barrels they provided to other makers. The Blue Sky kills a lot of collector value along with the post war rebuild. The big money carbines are in WWII condition with flip sights and no bayonet lugs. I would value a good condition Blue Sky as a shooter grade, seem to be going for $600-750 now days.

[artoter]

Nice rifle OP. I know Inland is making new manufacture M1 carbines now, called the T30 I think, but they start out at 1,200 bucks!

[T2C]

The bolt appears to be cold blued, which would indicate a replacement bolt. The pins on the stock appear to be brass pins used to repair cracks and splits.

The action's fit to the stock is not an issue if it shoots well. The important area for fit is between the recoil plate and receiver. The CMP website has an article on making the M1 Carbine shoot accurately.

Muzzle erosion can be checked with a 30-06 cartridge inserted into the muzzle. If you can see bullet between the muzzle crown and brass on the cartridge, muzzle wear would not be considered excessive. It would be a good idea to have someone with headspace gauges check for proper headspace.

The M1 Carbine can be a lot of fun to shoot and it makes a decent truck gun.

[Mr McSimon]

Thanks for the replies and additional info so far. Here's a follow up question.

Admittedly it's been a while since I've had this rifle out to shoot, something I plan on changing in the near future, but I got the magazines out to inspect them when I noticed a difference between the 20 round and 30 rounders. One of the reasons I decided to look at them in the first place is because I noticed that the bolt doesn't lock very securely to the rear when there's not a magazine in the well, so I figured the mags must help. That's when I noticed the difference between the two. In this picture, on the left you can see the 30 round mag has a square tab on the follower where the bolt catches after ejecting the last round, which also creates some pressure against the magazine which makes it more difficult to eject, and also allowing for the bolt to close on the empty chamber after ejecting the mag. On the 20 round mag there's a slope so that bolt closes on an empty chamber after the last round while the magazine is still inserted. In both cases it seems there's a need to recharge the rifle after reloading on a closed bolt.

I can surmise the thinking behind both designs, and can even start to list out pros and cons of both, but I ask again for comments from those who know. Why the change in design, and which design replaces which?

[T2C]

The original 15 round magazines did not hold the bolt open after the last shot. The magazine on the left has a BHO (Bolt Hold Open) follower.

It is not unusual for the bolt to go forward with a slight bump on the stock with no magazine in the carbine.

[misfit47]

The bolt is an early one. The flat bolts were blued, not parked. Mack7.62 is in the right ballpark value wise. Looks like a great shooter grade.

[CAVDOC]

Carbine production in WWII is a pretty complex story and testament to American manufacturing abilities at the time. Many companies made them who were not originally gun companies ( ibm rock-ola national postal meter inland Saginaw steering gear standard products Irwin Pederson and of course Winchester underwood) only Winchester had any experience making guns prior to the war, much like Remington rand the typewriter company making 1911's and smith corona typewriter making 03-A3's. the carbine makes would move parts around from factory to factory when supplies at one were low so miss matched barrels are common. Import makes in all cases decrease value over non import marked guns. My brother is a collector and at one time had about 40 carbines and wasn't even close to having an example of every variation

[RazorBurn]

Check out this website. Very informative, and educational when it comes to the USGI and commercial M1 Carbines!

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/

Prices are steadily rising on all milsurps as the CMP and other sources dwindle. Yours being a Blue Sky import brings it down somewhat as some Blue Sky import stamps on Garands and Carbines were struck too deeply causing damage to the bore. You have a nice looking Carbine, and I'd say it's a $600.00 or so rifle as stated above.

Supposedly there are some Phillipine Garands and Carbines in the CMP pipeline, and it would be great to see what happens to the South Korean Garands and Carbines that Obama blocked from import a couple of years ago. If (and hopefully when) those happen, you'll see prices dip a little bit if the they are in supply with a reasonable price on them.

[Mr McSimon]

Thanks for all the replies everybody, the valuations, and that last link. I've been trying to get my rifle out to the range the last couple of weeks but life has been getting in the way. When I do, I'll come back to post a few more pics and talk about the shoot.