Why the shotgun hate?

[26 Inf]

Versatile yes. But short-range, limited accuracy and heavy recoil. They require skill to use well, but outside of sporting clays you don't get much sense of accomplishment for gaining that skill. The Swiss-army-knife analogy is a good one.

For home defense it depends on your situation. Shotguns can address overpenetration, but they do so by losing penetration of intended targets as well (birdshot). A 12ga slug has overpenetration issues like anything short of dangerous game cartridges. Assuming you don't want an NFA SBS, a legal shotgun is long and unwieldy compared to a legal (non-NFA) AR or other 16" barreled carbine, or a handgun.

I love me some shotgun, in circumstances where it is the proper tool for the job.

With proper ammunition selection you can make the shotgun 'acceptable' for more uses than most other firearms.

Your statement about feeling of accomplishment - that is your perception, I have more fun busting clays than just about anything firearms related, except banging steel at 1,000 and beyond.

I agree about home defense, but what would you rather take, a double tap to the chest at 20 feet with #1 Buck, or with a 5.56? I'd probably take my chances with the 5.56, either way it is going to suck.

Regarding over-penetration with slugs, I've yet to hear of secondary wounds to another party from a slug, many don't leave the body. Perhaps you do, if so let me know so I can research thew incident.

One advantage the shotgun has for close range room combat is that for a precision shot you don't have to factor in offset, like you do with the AR platform.

My HD shotguns, a 12gauge and a 20 gauge, are loaded with Brenneke THD Slugs. Accurate and limits the likelihood of a hostage/close bystander being hit with an errant wad. Did I mention, no need to worry about offset?

My daughters 21" 20 gauge is 2" longer than my suppressed 10.5" SBR with the stock fully collapsed. The SBR with the stock where I run it, is about the same length as the shotgun.

As I wrote this, I began to ponder, if I had to give up every long gun except one, which one would I keep. I'm not completely sure it wouldn't be a shotgun.

[26 Inf]

The North Hollywood shootout would have been over most ricky tick if their aging Ithacas had one dude with slugs. Police Chiefs dont like slugs. I have heard every crazy reason why mostly steeped in superstition.

The North Hollywood shootout would have been over if someone had the wherewithall to go roll over prone and take a couple of 35 yard head shots.

I do agree that in today's world, "for basic patrolman, he or she can get a good 100 yd zero, learn super basic CQ rifle use and be far more effective than thrusting a 12 gauge in their arms and saying "ah say there, dew the best yew can"

[26 Inf]

It would be fair to call me a shot gun hater. I own one, a 870 to have as an example. I set it up pretty nice with a red dot and speed feed stock. I take no pleasure in shooting it. It does almost nothing for me I couldn't do, or do better with a carbine.

Well, IMHO, you eff'ed it up by putting a red dot on it. Any red dot mounted on a p-rail is too high over the bore axis for what a shotgun is all about. Once again, IMHO, with the exception of the burris speedbead, red dots take away from the versatility of the shotgun and hamper it's use for anything but a slug gun.

JM devalued $.02

[glocktogo]

My 1st centerfire gun was a 20ga single and I had an 1100 12ga by the time I was 12. Shotguns are versatile and capable for many things, but they just don't have as much to offer as a defensive gun anymore. Factoring high recoil, low capacity, weight and other factors such as shot placement and range, other choices make more sense. I still have three shotguns and one of them is an 18" cyl bore pump, but it never gets used tbh.

[Firefly]

The North Hollywood shootout would have been over if someone had the wherewithall to go roll over prone and take a couple of 35 yard head shots.

True, but it looked like they were trying but most of them weren't exactly Governor's Twenty and being shot at with a full auto AK certainly made it harder.

So....A for Effort and Hustle

[JC5188]

I'm not an expert here, but those people who have really taken the time to be proficient with the shot gun will be a formidable threat and opponent, and one my my close buds who can work a Benelli like a 2 $ hooker, is a scary thing to watch. If starting from zero with todays choices, I think most would say what others have said in terms of recoil, and the other limitations and point people toward options such as SBR ARs and handguns, but I'd also posit they'd say that if one has the skill sets to really run a scatter gun already, there's not particular reason they should change over either if that's what the prefer. Like people that can really run a wheel gun, which are exceedingly rare these days but plenty effective if they have that skill set, which I do not. I think you'd find the days of the scatter gun as a primary go to for SD/HD among the BTDT types rare to non existent these days.

Absolutely true, and my father and uncle are living proof. I have another uncle that won't hunt with them, as he said they don't give anybody else a chance...birds included. Dad hunts an O/U 20ga for pheasant.

I really was into shotguns. Took all the schools, had more than a few old salts say it was the most versatile patrol weapon available.

And I lapped it up. And I enjoyed shooting them.

I was told how they were better than subguns, intimidating to suspects, etc.

But...after a while and as advancements catch on...you realize you are using 19th century tech in a 21st century world.

They do have a niche for less lethal or breaching. And hunting fowl.

I do not hate shotguns and wont part with mine (although they collect dust) but even for HD a good carbine will do better than a shotgun.

Seeing dudes buy their women a J Frame and a 20 gauge express instead of a Glock 19 and a decent AR is infuriating. It shows they either dont care about their women or are just ignorant.

The manual of arms on a pump action is not that easy. When it fouls up on you, if you are not trained to properly mortar hit that stock to get the flexi-tab system then you are toast.

Remedial action on an AR can be as simple as rip, rack replace, tap, rack, bang or SPORTS if you wanna be technical.

But like revolvers, you are going to see shotguns become essentially commercial only products for people in restricted areas or strictky for hunting.

Even subguns are pretty much done.

Why carry an MP5 when a shorty AR and suppressor will do much better?

Why carry a shotgun when a standard 14.5 or 16 AR will do much better?

The North Hollywood shootout would have been over most ricky tick if their aging Ithacas had one dude with slugs. Police Chiefs dont like slugs. I have heard every crazy reason why mostly steeped in superstition.

Background awareness and round accountability is universal.

You would deprive me of a sabot slug out of fear I might miss but not of the umpteen 9mm, 40, or 45 rounds I have that can kill someone too if I miss?

Soooo logical.

If we can't get full use, then scrap it for something more useful.

LL bean bags can still kill and require training.

Breaching requires training.

For basic patrolman, he or she can get a good 100 yd zero, learn super basic CQ rifle use and be far more effective than thrusting a 12 gauge in their arms and saying "ah say there, dew the best yew can"

Thats just my deal.

Absolutely agree with the girls and pump guns/revolvers. The only two guns I've ever locked up tighter than dicks hat band were an 870 and a .357 mag revolver. Ammo related, but it happens. They had to go to somebody with a tool box.

For me, when I was younger, it was just a super macho epitome of a firearm.

Big shells, big bore, big explosion, big recoil and big holes in shit. Big manly manual of arms required as well (racking).

As time marched on, knowledge of firearms, use of more firearms and actual collection of firearms increased, it's not about that anymore.

Out in the Western US, the shotgun's range is debilitating as well.


I still personally get a kick out of shooting them though (pun intended).

That's exactly the romantic aspect I mentioned earlier, so I'm w/you on that.

They are very versatile guns, but almost fall in the realm jack of all trades master of none. If you know when or how to use them, they are a good gun. I had kind of given up on them for a defensive gun until I just recently got a shockwave. While the shockwave has a small niche, it actually meets the needs I want from a shotgun.

Sent from my Z797C using Tapatalk

My current favorite gun to shoot is a little stoeger coach in 20ga. But if faced with multiple assailants, it'd be a bat after two rounds.

Great responses guys. Lots of good insight here







"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."

---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch

[Det-Sog]

This is a great thread. I've really been thinking about my Benelli M2 that's basically been turned into a safe queen now that I don't shoot 3-gun anymore.

It was the last shot gun that I had that I qualified with as a LEO, so there is a little bit of sentimental value attached to it.

Back in the day, it was the cats meow. Given the proliferation of the AR platform though, coupled with the fact that I do not plan on shooting 3 gun again anytime soon, I'm thinking about swapping it for A large caliber precision rifle.

At the same time though, I'm afraid if I let it go I will end up regretting it 5 to 10 years down the road.

Decisions, decisions.

[Jer]

One of the main problems is that it's one of the most suggested platforms for home defense for someone who doesn't know the first thing about firearms. In the hands of a novice it's terrible for so many reasons.

That being said, the more I train with them the less I would reach for one for home defense. Not to say it can't be done I just feel that other platforms provide a better solution for this use.

I'm sure some disagree but that's me.

[T2C]

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[JC5188]

This is a great thread. I've really been thinking about my Benelli M2 that's basically been turned into a safe queen now that I don't shoot 3-gun anymore.

It was the last shot gun that I had that I qualified with as a LEO, so there is a little bit of sentimental value attached to it.

Back in the day, it was the cats meow. Given the proliferation of the AR platform though, coupled with the fact that I do not plan on shooting 3 gun again anytime soon, I'm thinking about swapping it for A large caliber precision rifle.

At the same time though, I'm afraid if I let it go I will end up regretting it 5 to 10 years down the road.

Decisions, decisions.

Lol, I'm tellin' ya, I'm coming to the conclusion that my "shotgun problem" is a sentimental one.

Logically, I understand there are guns more suitable for defensive purposes. But then, in capable hands, a shotty will "bust that ass"

Then there is the craftsmanship. The wood on my Silver Pigeon is so flawless and finely finished it looks almost fake.

So, yeah...I'll admit, I have a shotgun "problem"...I mean hell, I have four 870's alone.






"I've just got like, this 5.56 okay? And it's 55 grain ball. And everybody I've ever seen shot with it, it dicks them up."

---Clint Smith
Thunder Ranch