Glock Gen 3 Production

[jason el cuerdo]

The real problem in CA is that Those Who Were Ordained to Decide How I Should Live have repeatedly increased the requirements to certify a handgun model as "not unsafe". The only reason gen 3's are still permitted is because they are grandfathered in. They wouldn't meet the criteria today.

Things like LCI's with prominent explanations, mag disconnects, and their ultimate triumph - "microstamping"; a technology that barely exists and no manufacturer can or will try to implement.

And yes, there are far more gun owners in CA than most people realize, and many of them have a lot of disposable income (guns are increasingly popular with the Call of Duty generation many of whom are now tech-bros making way into the six-fig range). The gun stores in the Google/Facebook/Apple regional venn diagram do a stupid amount of business.

Is a good question which reason will keep the gen 3's in production: the mil/leo market or CA civilian?

And yes, it's obviously an attempt to limit the number of guns that can be sold. The forces of evil never tire.

[call_me_ski]

The real problem in CA is that Those Who Were Ordained to Decide How I Should Live have repeatedly increased the requirements to certify a handgun model as "not unsafe". The only reason gen 3's are still permitted is because they are grandfathered in. They wouldn't meet the criteria today.

Things like LCI's with prominent explanations, mag disconnects, and their ultimate triumph - "microstamping"; a technology that barely exists and no manufacturer can or will try to implement.

And yes, there are far more gun owners in CA than most people realize, and many of them have a lot of disposable income (guns are increasingly popular with the Call of Duty generation many of whom are now tech-bros making way into the six-fig range). The gun stores in the Google/Facebook/Apple regional venn diagram do a stupid amount of business.

Is a good question which reason will keep the gen 3's in production: the mil/leo market or CA civilian?

And yes, it's obviously an attempt to limit the number of guns that can be sold. The forces of evil never tire.

This is spot on. In 2008, the requirement to be added to the roster changed. All semi autos needed to have a loaded chamber indicator that has a description on it and shows the color red. Furthermore newly added pistols must have a magazine disconnect. The Gen 4 gun did not meet either of these requirements so they were never added. These requirement also kept out all of Glocks competition as circa 2008 there were not many striker fired polymer guns that could hang with Glock. Smith and Wesson let the M&P expire off the roster(manufacturers must pay to renew their status every year) for one reason or other leaving Glock and gen 1 XDs.

Things got more complicated in 2013 when Cal DOJ decided that microstamping was feasible. A law was in place that would require new submissions to feature the technology when it became possible. Despite no one marketing any such technology, Cal DOJ won’t allow new submissions to be approved without it. No new semi auto pistols have been approved for sale since.

If you walk into a CA Gunshop and look at the handgun case it is like traveling back in time a decade.

[3ACR_Scout]

Ski, I've heard from military folks who have been stationed in CA that there is an odd loophole through which some people who move to CA can bring in pistols that are not on the list and then sell them through a dealer. Obviously they couldn't purchase and bring them in with the express purpose of selling them, but I could see how those pistols would be in high demand. Is that accurate, or has that loophole been closed by subsequent legislation?

I personally like Gen 3s, so I'm glad they'll still be available, at least for now.

On a side note, just as an example of how awesome CA is, there is also an exemption that allows military personnel to bring in normally banned weapons, such as unmodified AR15s. The exemption must be reapplied for each year that you live in state. A Navy friend told me that a buddy of his received the exemption, moved to San Diego, and then reapplied for it a year later. The second time, it was denied, and he had to quickly move all of his "illegal" rifles to his brother's out of state.

[turnburglar]

Ski, I've heard from military folks who have been stationed in CA that there is an odd loophole through which some people who move to CA can bring in pistols that are not on the list and then sell them through a dealer.

I did this exact thing very recently when I moved from AZ to CA with some AK pistols that I sold to my buddies. They never would have been able to get these AK's because of CA's hand gun roster. Lucky for them I only want NATO rounds in my arsenal.

[call_me_ski]

Ski, I've heard from military folks who have been stationed in CA that there is an odd loophole through which some people who move to CA can bring in pistols that are not on the list and then sell them through a dealer. Obviously they couldn't purchase and bring them in with the express purpose of selling them, but I could see how those pistols would be in high demand. Is that accurate, or has that loophole been closed by subsequent legislation?

I personally like Gen 3s, so I'm glad they'll still be available, at least for now.

There is a thriving secondary market for "Off roster" guns in CA. In CA you also have to sell used guns through an FFL and they are subject to all laws(background check, Firearm safety cert, 10 day wait) other than the roster. The kicker is that these transactions have to occur between residents in the state face to face. One can't simply buy a used gun on gunbroker. That means prices can be greatly inflated for some rare items. I once saw a guy drive 700 miles round trip TWICE(to start paperwork and 10 days later to pickup) for a used PPK/S.

If you think that is asinine, you would love the single shot exemption(SSE) which was occurring until they closed it in 2015. The Safe handgun roster does not apply to certain handguns. If a handgun was single shot, had a barrel length greater than 6 inches and overall length greater than 10.5 inches it would be exempt. This was meant for pistols such as TC contenders. However, as shown by the used market, the roster does not outline what is legal to own, only what is legal to sell by an FFL. Once you own a firearm, you are free to modify it so long as it does not violate any other laws. Some entrepreneurial FFLs started modifying semi auto pistols to fit into the stated SSE and began selling them. This was simply done by including a magazine modified not to hold any rounds, and installing a long barrel. Once the gun was delivered, the FFL would exchange the blocked mag and long barrel for the factory parts should the individual choose to do so. And everyone chose to do so of course. This started around 2010-2011 time frame and it was a golden era of people being able to get around the roster. Unfortunately that ended a couple years back.

Here is a picture of an LCP modified to meet the SSE.


I tell these stories as a CA refugee so that when someone tries to sell this shit in a capital city near you, you can help prevent it because you can see it for the bag of dicks it is.

[w3453l]

There is a thriving secondary market for "Off roster" guns in CA. In CA you also have to sell used guns through an FFL and they are subject to all laws(background check, Firearm safety cert, 10 day wait) other than the roster. The kicker is that these transactions have to occur between residents in the state face to face. One can't simply buy a used gun on gunbroker. That means prices can be greatly inflated for some rare items. I once saw a guy drive 700 miles round trip TWICE(to start paperwork and 10 days later to pickup) for a used PPK/S.

If you think that is asinine, you would love the single shot exemption(SSE) which was occurring until they closed it in 2015. The Safe handgun roster does not apply to certain handguns. If a handgun was single shot, had a barrel length greater than 6 inches and overall length greater than 10.5 inches it would be exempt. This was meant for pistols such as TC contenders. However, as shown by the used market, the roster does not outline what is legal to own, only what is legal to sell by an FFL. Once you own a firearm, you are free to modify it so long as it does not violate any other laws. Some entrepreneurial FFLs started modifying semi auto pistols to fit into the stated SSE and began selling them. This was simply done by including a magazine modified not to hold any rounds, and installing a long barrel. Once the gun was delivered, the FFL would exchange the blocked mag and long barrel for the factory parts should the individual choose to do so. And everyone chose to do so of course. This started around 2010-2011 time frame and it was a golden era of people being able to get around the roster. Unfortunately that ended a couple years back.

Here is a picture of an LCP modified to meet the SSE.


I tell these stories as a CA refugee so that when someone tries to sell this shit in a capital city near you, you can help prevent it because you can see it for the bag of dicks it is.

This is spot on. Another thing that is possible, is if you have family in another state, they can send you a handgun via intrafamilial (sp?) transfer. The handgun has to meet CA handgun legal requirements, such as no threaded barrel and 10 round magazine, but it's very doable.

There are specifics as to which family member can send to which family member, for example father to son is ok, but brother to brother is not ok.

LEO's are also exempt from the handgun roster, but I'm not entirely sure as to how much freedom they have buying off-roster guns. I don't want to spread misinformation, but some LEO's I've spoken to personally said that they needed department approval. While other LEO's said they just walk into a store and show their LE ID, and pick up whatever they want. I'm not sure if one was right and the other misinformed, but I can say that I do see LEO's posting sale ads for off roster handguns fairly often.

[3ACR_Scout]

I don't want to spread misinformation, but some LEO's I've spoken to personally said that they needed department approval. While other LEO's said they just walk into a store and show their LE ID, and pick up whatever they want.

That seems odd, because that would imply to me that there are dealers that regularly stock handguns that are not permitted for (normal) sale in CA. I guess they would have to be LE dealers that sell to that limited customer base that is exempt. Kind of like ARs back in the Dark Times, I guess.

All this kind of reminds me of the bizarre law in MA that prohibits certain pistols from being sold in state, but you can have them shipped to an FFL from an out of state dealer as long as the slide is removed. They transfer the frame to you through an FFL, and then ship the slide separately (I think). These are great examples of people making laws who clearly don't understand what they're talking / writing about.

[w3453l]

Yes, it's pretty normal to see display cases with handguns that aren't allowed for (normal) sale in CA. It's usually a small selection, but there's a clear label in the case saying "For LE sales only", or something to that effect. Some dealers will let you still fondle them, others won't take it out of the case unless you are LE.

[Feline]

The real problem in CA is that Those Who Were Ordained to Decide How I Should Live have repeatedly increased the requirements to certify a handgun model as "not unsafe". The only reason gen 3's are still permitted is because they are grandfathered in. They wouldn't meet the criteria today.

Things like LCI's with prominent explanations, mag disconnects, and their ultimate triumph - "microstamping"; a technology that barely exists and no manufacturer can or will try to implement.

And yes, there are far more gun owners in CA than most people realize, and many of them have a lot of disposable income (guns are increasingly popular with the Call of Duty generation many of whom are now tech-bros making way into the six-fig range). The gun stores in the Google/Facebook/Apple regional venn diagram do a stupid amount of business.

Is a good question which reason will keep the gen 3's in production: the mil/leo market or CA civilian?

And yes, it's obviously an attempt to limit the number of guns that can be sold. The forces of evil never tire.

When do you say, "enough is enough"?

[call_me_ski]

This is spot on. Another thing that is possible, is if you have family in another state, they can send you a handgun via intrafamilial (sp?) transfer. The handgun has to meet CA handgun legal requirements, such as no threaded barrel and 10 round magazine, but it's very doable.

There are specifics as to which family member can send to which family member, for example father to son is ok, but brother to brother is not ok.

LEO's are also exempt from the handgun roster, but I'm not entirely sure as to how much freedom they have buying off-roster guns. I don't want to spread misinformation, but some LEO's I've spoken to personally said that they needed department approval. While other LEO's said they just walk into a store and show their LE ID, and pick up whatever they want. I'm not sure if one was right and the other misinformed, but I can say that I do see LEO's posting sale ads for off roster handguns fairly often.

LEO's just need to present department ID and they can buy whatever they want that is off roster. They need a letterhead from the department if they want to buy an assualt weapon. Every year a hand full of cops get in trouble for dealing in firearms without an FFL for reselling off roster handguns.