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Thread: Pistol - Minimum Defensive Accuracy Standards

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    I've come to realize that I either hit what I aim at, or miss. Using "combat shooting", "combat effective", and "center of mass" were more comforting ways to view my failures, but in the end I was missing.
    Were you missing? Or were you placing rounds in the center mass of the target?

    My point is group size is cool and all, but an a zone hit is an a zone hit. Say a qual stage is 4rds in 2 seconds from 3yds. If all 4rds are a zone hits, why care about group size. I see the relevancy in something like bullseye target shooting, not defensive pistol shooting.

    That's my point I guess.
    Last edited by J-Dub; 10-13-17 at 01:50.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Dub View Post
    Were you missing? Or were you placing rounds in the center mass of the target?

    My point is group size is cool and all, but an a zone hit is an a zone hit. Say a qual stage is 4rds in 2 seconds from 3yds. If all 4rds are a zone hits, why care about group size. I see the relevancy in something like bullseye target shooting, not defensive pistol shooting.

    That's my point I guess.
    Every string of fire produces a "group". And a target is a defined size. The entire group either hits the intended target or it doesn't.

    Center of mass is not a quick way to incapacitate. CNS and heart are the most effective. In defensive shooting, you hit them or you don't. All a-zone hits mean you are producing a specific sized group.

    Tighter groups at a given distance mean increased distanced effectiveness. A zone is not a perfect representation of human anatomy.
    Last edited by MegademiC; 10-13-17 at 05:56.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    I've come to realize that I either hit what I aim at, or miss. Using "combat shooting", "combat effective", and "center of mass" were more comforting ways to view my failures, but in the end I was missing.

    I am a big believer in the use of the B8 bullseye as a pistol accuracy standard, regardless of distance. Score it, time it, record it, and hold yourself accountable. Work hard. Do better each time.

    We are definitely on the same page. Being able to shoot accurately helps to develop the ability to shoot effectively at speed.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegademiC View Post
    Every string of fire produces a "group". And a target is a defined size. The entire group either hits the intended target or it doesn't.

    Center of mass is not a quick way to incapacitate. CNS and heart are the most effective. In defensive shooting, you hit them or you don't. All a-zone hits mean you are producing a specific sized group.

    Tighter groups at a given distance mean increased distanced effectiveness. A zone is not a perfect representation of human anatomy.
    Yes. This is a discussion on "minimum defensive accuracy standards", I thought. If you keep all of your rounds inside the normal a zone on an ipsc target, at a minimum, I'd say that's acceptable. Probably not for most ninjas that get in gunfight everyday, but hey we can all strive for greatness.

  5. #25
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    Their is no substitute for accuracy. I saw it written somewhere "you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight". It doesn't matter how fast you are if you aren't accurate.
    In doing pistol drills with lav he told us that when we got home to practice, that if we couldn't do the drills in the allotted time accurately to move closer. Get accurate hits in the time then work your way back. But to never sacrifice accuracy for speed.
    Speed will come if you work hard enough. But the only hits that count are accurate ones.
    If you think pie plate at 25yds is acceptable on a one way range, you aren't doing yourself any favors.
    I try for a center of the head shot with a holstered weapon at 25 yards sub 1.8sec. Starting with hands up.

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by echo5whiskey View Post
    I don't think there's ever a point when you can say that you're too accurate. Goals are great! Set a goal, reach a goal; but you should always strive to be better. I've never subscribed to the "good enough" mentality.

    Now that you can hold a head-sized group at 25, either push it out further, or strive for [what I know as a] t-box at the same distance.
    EXACTLY!!!

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  7. #27
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    Drills I've picked up here and pistol-forum/pistol-training I mostly use to gauge myself at a particular time or with a particular pistol are

    The Test - B8 bull at 10 yards, 10 rounds, 10 seconds, I should be able to 'pass' this with anything I carry (exception for Shield that only holds 8-9 rounds, I Just shoot that many rounds), and I also shoot it for time (only clean scores count)

    Half Test to speed things up. 10 rounds, 5 yards, 5 seconds.

    3x5 walk back: 3x5 index card, horizontal, slow deliberate fire, three rounds per yard line, my goal is to make it to 15 yards without missing but that doesn't usually happen. 10 yards or less for a miss and I suck.

    Slow fire into a B8 bull at 25 yards, 5 shot group, I'd like all in the black, don't shoot this one much though mostly shoot closer in

    IMO, for me, and I'm just a guy who shoots guns, this is a pretty good mix of ranges and speeds, without any overly large hit zones that can cover things up. And really easy targets find. The 8 is just a 5.5" circle so it doesn't have to be an actual B8 if you are just counting hit/miss based on in the 5.5" or not...just make or use any 5.5" diameter circle


    After finding sites like this and the pistol forum/training, I realized that the big silhouette targets with something like 8"-11" squares or similar as "COM" shot at 7 yards are kind of shit for accuracy or holding me accountable for deviating the sites during the trigger press. Admittedly I didn't take this step until I went to a class several years ago where we shot "The Test" once, one by one, and I did not pass. grumble
    Last edited by Warp; 11-07-17 at 19:24.
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