On DD, rails, and what does one need on an AR

[Vegasshooter]

I wouldn't base my perception of needs on what some city cop has in his patrol car. I'd bet a case of 5.56 neither one of those rifles was very sighted in.

Jerry rigging a light onta plastic handguard is not as good as a proper rail and mount. Even if Magpul made all the plastic stuff.

I Sir will 100% take your ammo from you. I can tell you for 100% fact that the rifle school LVMPD goes through is 48 hours long, they shoot and QUALIFY out to 200 yds. Several "ex military " have gone through and had a very tough time with the class. The Officers qualify 4x a year, and have to shoot a 90% or better. Don't pass 2x, and the rifle is gone until they take a 10 hour refresher and re-qual.
Careful making assumptions about some "City Cop" and his equipment and training. LVMPD isn't Mayberry.

[Vegasshooter]

Hell I'd bet a case of 5.56 that the average city cop couldn't make "A" zone hits at 100 yards from a field/practical position if his patrol rifle was properly sighted in.

Almost zero chance that their carbine will actually be sighted in. More likely they stuck a bore sighter on moved the dot to coincide and called it good.

You're talking absolutely, completely out your ass!! You have no idea how their training is, and that is a totally incorrect statement. If you have one ounce of evidence about that PLEASE SHARE. Otherwise keep quiet and go color.
The training standards for LVMPD, although not perfect, are still VERY high.

[Averageman]

So back to rails,....
I've got a nice mix of AR's, my only real reason for a rail is to mount a very few things on them and even then, it's mostly being used for a quality light.
When I roll in the cash and incentive to purchase NV that might change, but now, that is the main reason I "need" a rail.

Oddly enough I own some rather decent AR's and my most used/most fun is mutt that was bought used in the bad old days.
It's been modified a bit to my liking, but it is certainly nothing special. A 14.5 BCM upper with a M.I. rail over a Spikes lower with a Geissele trigger.
It's got a mix of furniture that rolls with it in a sort of ever evolving way. but that damned thing has only STB once and that was with some cheap steel cased ammo.
I think we waaay overthink this stuff in a First World, spoiled sort of way.

[ghostly]

You're talking absolutely, completely out your ass!! You have no idea how their training is, and that is a totally incorrect statement. If you have one ounce of evidence about that PLEASE SHARE. Otherwise keep quiet and go color.
The training standards for LVMPD, although not perfect, are still VERY high.

Evidently, not all organizations are as professional as yours. See my above post. That's the problem with stereotyping, people get a bad impression and carry it over as a blanket statement.


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[Coal Dragger]

You're talking absolutely, completely out your ass!! You have no idea how their training is, and that is a totally incorrect statement. If you have one ounce of evidence about that PLEASE SHARE. Otherwise keep quiet and go color.
The training standards for LVMPD, although not perfect, are still VERY high.

I do like me some crayons....

I was speaking mostly about average police officers around the country not specifically about LVMPD. My experiences shooting with or around the average US LEO have left me with the distinct impression that most of them probably shouldn't be carrying a sidearm due to lack of proficiency.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

I see a lot of DD guns set up with the DD fixed sights on the rails. How much of a concern is it to have the barrel free floated from a fixed iron sight, when compared to a FSP on the barrel?

It would seem the increased sight radius would add an advantage over a standard FSB, but I don't know if that's offset by the railed sight not being attached to the barrel.

In my experience, I never noticed much of a difference in iron sight radius on rifles, I do notice it with pistols though.


Some low end free float rails end up getting loose from drops and stuff and will lose zero on the front sight. A good rail wont have this problem.
If all you need is a free float and a light, I see no reason to spend a ton of money. Just make sure it's tight and has a good method for attaching to the upper. A FF rail isn't needed, but it is nice to have!


For the super operators that operate tactically more than navy seals, they need a rail that doesn't move when it has IR lasers, flashlight, ironsight, night vision, forgrip, bipod, 45 degree irons to in case their back up iron sights go down, a back up red dot for their primary optic, a camera mount, and a molon labe dust cover, etc

Lol, the most important aspects to me are, Light weight and Holds zero/good mounting method. I have a really heavy free float rail on my SPR and I hate shooting it off hand.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

I do like me some crayons....
Hell I'd bet a case of 5.56 that the average city cop couldn't make "A" zone hits at 100 yards from a field/practical position if his patrol rifle was properly sighted in.

Almost zero chance that their carbine will actually be sighted in. More likely they stuck a bore sighter on moved the dot to coincide and called it good.

I was speaking mostly about average police officers around the country not specifically about LVMPD. My experiences shooting with or around the average US LEO have left me with the distinct impression that most of them probably shouldn't be carrying a sidearm due to lack of proficiency.

I know I am new, but with all due respect... I find your post very disrespectful.

You are mistaken on the numbers here, but you're not completely wrong, just mostly wrong....

Most cops are gun guys/girls, most of them shoot well, and have to shoot quals that most internet keyboard warriors could not pass. For every 20 Officers that pass those quals with proficiency, there is one straggler that needs a ton of help to pass quals, who is generally very bad with guns. Just because that cop isn't a good shooter doesn't mean they aren't more proficient at other parts of the job. 99.99% of police daily duty has nothing to do with firearm proficiency. However, to even get the Badge, they need to pass some pretty stressful firearms quals ( at least in my state of residency ).

But please spare me the ''cops cant shoot'' bit. In my state of residence all LE are required high standards of marksmanship and weapons familiarity... And like I said, I bet most keyboard commandos could not pass various LE firearms quals.
If you don't know the Firearm qualification standards that various LE agencies require, then please do not make such bold statements about that subject.


I feel personally qualified to comment on this subject, but I really don't want to say much more about it for various reasons.

[17K]

It takes a 'gun guy' to be interested enough to shoot competition outside of work when you're LE. I've been shooting competitively for over ten years and I can count on one hand the number really switched on LE shooters I've shot with. Two were SWAT instructors with their own training schools. Those two were truly talented and passionate about mastering their trade and sport. The majority of the rest have been consistently mediocre to poor shooters, and not any better at handling/negotiating the match and training scenarios presented.

As a person whose been an RSO and assisted trainers training LE, they are some of the most untrainable people I've encountered. Mostly due to their perception of proficiency based on the standards they've qualified to.

Good for LVMP, the world needs more shooters.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

A rail is not necessary but it makes the rifle more effective. If one can afford a rail, I would recommend buying one.


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[5.56 Bonded SP]

It takes a 'gun guy' to be interested enough to shoot competition outside of work when you're LE. I've been shooting competitively for over ten years and I can count on one hand the number really switched on LE shooters I've shot with. Two were SWAT instructors with their own training schools. Those two were truly talented and passionate about mastering their trade and sport. The majority of the rest have been consistently mediocre to poor shooters, and not any better at handling/negotiating the match and training scenarios presented.

As a person whose been an RSO and assisted trainers training LE, they are some of the most untrainable people I've encountered. Mostly due to their perception of proficiency based on the standards they've qualified to.

Good for LVMP, the world needs more shooters.

Ok, lets dissect this a bit further here just for conversation and perceptual sake.

Right now we are on a technical forum, and I assume most of us here know a ridiculous bit of knowledge about AR's and other guns. We probably know many things that many Military grunts, and Police grunts do not know in regards to AR's, ammo, etc. That doesn't mean we are better shooters though, but maybe some of us are... anyway...

Now lets think about the broader spectrum of gun forums, and gun owners in general. I am willing to bet the majority of people that constantly post on forums , or own guns, probably have poor form, and are generally not proficient shooters in regards to combat or competition shooting techniques. Most people who post on forums probably have never had time with actual instructors. (think arfcom gd).

Now what if I took Coal draggers comments and replaced the word ''cops'' with something else like '' Most people on this forum ''...

For example ...

I do like me some crayons....
Hell I'd bet a case of 5.56 that most people on this forum couldn't make "A" zone hits at 100 yards from a field/practical position if his patrol rifle was properly sighted in.
Almost zero chance that their carbine will actually be sighted in. More likely most people on this forum just stuck a bore sighter on moved the dot to coincide and called it good.

I was speaking about most people on this forum not specifically about LVMPD. My experiences shooting with most people on this forum have left me with the distinct impression that most of them probably shouldn't be carrying a sidearm due to lack of proficiency.

Now that altered quote might not have made the gears turn or the lightbulb click for some. What I am trying to get at here, is that having an elitist attitude where you consider yourself superior than the majority of a particular group ( in this case cops ), is a ridiculous way to think. Not the entire Army is full of super operators, they have cooks and such too, not every troop is trained to make hits with a .50 at 1000 yards...... Not all cops are part of the Swat team... And if you guys think it is easy to get on Swat, you are simply wrong.

I doubt that everyone here is a Teir1 navy seal or competition operator. I am not saying all cops are Teir1 operators, or that they are even good shooters, but to say the majority of cops don't know how to zero optics and such is just ridiculous.
I think it is important to be humble... One more time
I think it is important to be humble.


I'm not trying to come off on the wrong foot being a new guy here, I am sure many of you are better shooters than a lot of cops, and probably better shooters than me. But I have a hard time saying nothing when I read some of the stuff I have about LE in this thread. I think it is naive, and dangerous to be so full of one's self to consider one self superior to an entire demographic, even if it is only in regards to weapons handling. I am willing to bet that the ones in this thread disrespecting LE aren't even aware that most police use basic defensive stances and tactics during every traffic stop so that they can properly address potentially life threatening situations.

Not trying to rub anyone the wrong way here. I've said all I want to say.