AR reliability. Riddle me this.

[Kevslatvin]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section. If soldiers were deployed to a jungle environment like Vietnam with the current m4 but no cleaning kits( like those first m16s) would they fare any better? Is the chrome lined bore and chamber and proper powder enough to keep them running, or would there be stoppages and jams like the first time around? I'm not trying to troll it's just the whole AR vs AK reliability thing has got me thinking. Is the AR platform that much more reliable than it ever was or do we just know how to properly maintain them so they keep running now?

[Firefly]

If people had M4A1s the first day of the Vietnam War people would look at AKs the same way they look at Trabants

[Inkslinger]

I may be wrong, but I believe many of the problems originated from ammunition coupled with under lubrication.

[Kevslatvin]

If people had M4A1s the first day of the Vietnam War people would look at AKs the same way they look at Trabants

I think I agree though I had to Google Trabant. I only knew it as a ride at the fair. If the government didn't bungle the introduction of the M16 most of this reliability debate would have been a non-starter.

I may be wrong, but I believe many of the problems originated from ammunition coupled with under lubrication.

That is my understanding as well and where my question stems. With proper ammunition but inadequate cleaning and lubrication due to lack of cleaning kits how would the current gun fare?

[Doc Safari]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section. If soldiers were deployed to a jungle environment like Vietnam with the current m4 but no cleaning kits( like those first m16s) would they fare any better? Is the chrome lined bore and chamber and proper powder enough to keep them running, or would there be stoppages and jams like the first time around? I'm not trying to troll it's just the whole AR vs AK reliability thing has got me thinking. Is the AR platform that much more reliable than it ever was or do we just know how to properly maintain them so they keep running now?

Facts:

1. Early M16's had problems that are mostly a thing of the past
2. All guns need maintenance
3. The AR/M4/M16 needs to be babied a lot less than most would lead you to believe
4. The AK can in fact be made to malfunction if too much debris gets in it. It is not 100% because no gun is 100%
5. You do not have to use special lubricants to maintain the AR. Motor oil works fine
6. If you were living in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where you have to lubricate your weapon with poop and clean it with pee, then by all means the AK can take it.
If you have access to even the most rudimentary lubricants and cleaning materials, then the AR is fine, and has many advantages over the AK.
7. The lethality of .223/5.56 is much cussed and discussed, but as with all weapons, SHOT PLACEMENT IS THE KEY TO KNOCKDOWN ABILITY
8. Poor ammo will cause any weapon to malfunction, even an AK
9. All weapons wear out, but it is easier to change out the barrel/upper receiver (which takes most of the wear) on an AR than to rebarrel an AK.
10. Sand in the chamber is sand in the chamber. Debris in the wrong part of an AK will make your day end just as badly as if it had happened to an AR.

Hope this helps.

[MattC]

With good lube they'd be just fine.

[QuickStrike]

Have you seen the AK and AR mud tests?

A quality AR would probably work pretty well on any type of kind of automotive or cooking oil in an emergency. Probably many of the lotions and creams too.

And while DI does leave the receiver internals dirtier, it takes thousands of rounds in a well lubed AR to matter and no dingbat is surviving that long without cleaning his/her weapon in a hostile environment.

[Arik]

Great!! Now we're dissing Trabants!

How about a Volga?

I think AKs would still be as popular. Can't speak for the Vietnam era ARs but the few classes that's I've taken in bad weather my Colt performed just fine

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[5.56 Bonded SP]

Most people report that you have to fire thousands of rounds before you really start having problems, even more if your gun is properly lubed.

Could you really carry around a few thousand rounds?
Would you really fire a gun thousands of times without being able to apply a little lubrication or cleaning at some point?

These aren't belt fed weapons, they are carbine.

I mix a little bit of Grease with motor oil, and use it for my Lube. It stays put for an extremely long time after countless rounds, and I've never had a malfunction do to grease even in Sub-Zero weather. Fwiw. I live in the Rockies and the coldest it gets is around 10°f.

I think as long as you get a properly built milspec gun you won't have any problems with an AR or an AK, I have had good and bad experiences with both types of weapons. With either weapon as long as it was a quality built milspec weapon I have had no problems.
From my personal experiences I would take a Colt 6920 over a wasr any day. I even prefer a Colt 6920 over an Arsenal SLR 107... I own a ton of AK-47 and AR-15, the more rounds I put down range the more I prefer that the AR to be honest.
In the end I think either one will serve you just fine as long as it was a properly built gun, however the AR will shoot much more accurately, and smoothly with faster follow up shots and less recoil.


Mud tests are over rated, I'm not going to be shooting any gun that gets debris in the bore or chamber, which will cause a malfunction with any type of gun. That's why I keep a bore snake handy.

[Lefty223]

Wasn't the issue, not the ammo per say, but the powder used?

IIRC the Vietnam era platform was designed around a clean burning 'ball' powder, but when ammo was purchased by the military procurement establishment, it was awarded to someone who used a dirty 'flake' propellent.