AR reliability. Riddle me this.

[Kevslatvin]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section. If soldiers were deployed to a jungle environment like Vietnam with the current m4 but no cleaning kits( like those first m16s) would they fare any better? Is the chrome lined bore and chamber and proper powder enough to keep them running, or would there be stoppages and jams like the first time around? I'm not trying to troll it's just the whole AR vs AK reliability thing has got me thinking. Is the AR platform that much more reliable than it ever was or do we just know how to properly maintain them so they keep running now?

[Firefly]

If people had M4A1s the first day of the Vietnam War people would look at AKs the same way they look at Trabants

[Inkslinger]

I may be wrong, but I believe many of the problems originated from ammunition coupled with under lubrication.

[Kevslatvin]

If people had M4A1s the first day of the Vietnam War people would look at AKs the same way they look at Trabants

I think I agree though I had to Google Trabant. I only knew it as a ride at the fair. If the government didn't bungle the introduction of the M16 most of this reliability debate would have been a non-starter.

I may be wrong, but I believe many of the problems originated from ammunition coupled with under lubrication.

That is my understanding as well and where my question stems. With proper ammunition but inadequate cleaning and lubrication due to lack of cleaning kits how would the current gun fare?

[Doc Safari]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section. If soldiers were deployed to a jungle environment like Vietnam with the current m4 but no cleaning kits( like those first m16s) would they fare any better? Is the chrome lined bore and chamber and proper powder enough to keep them running, or would there be stoppages and jams like the first time around? I'm not trying to troll it's just the whole AR vs AK reliability thing has got me thinking. Is the AR platform that much more reliable than it ever was or do we just know how to properly maintain them so they keep running now?

Facts:

1. Early M16's had problems that are mostly a thing of the past
2. All guns need maintenance
3. The AR/M4/M16 needs to be babied a lot less than most would lead you to believe
4. The AK can in fact be made to malfunction if too much debris gets in it. It is not 100% because no gun is 100%
5. You do not have to use special lubricants to maintain the AR. Motor oil works fine
6. If you were living in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where you have to lubricate your weapon with poop and clean it with pee, then by all means the AK can take it.
If you have access to even the most rudimentary lubricants and cleaning materials, then the AR is fine, and has many advantages over the AK.
7. The lethality of .223/5.56 is much cussed and discussed, but as with all weapons, SHOT PLACEMENT IS THE KEY TO KNOCKDOWN ABILITY
8. Poor ammo will cause any weapon to malfunction, even an AK
9. All weapons wear out, but it is easier to change out the barrel/upper receiver (which takes most of the wear) on an AR than to rebarrel an AK.
10. Sand in the chamber is sand in the chamber. Debris in the wrong part of an AK will make your day end just as badly as if it had happened to an AR.

Hope this helps.

[QuickStrike]

Have you seen the AK and AR mud tests?

A quality AR would probably work pretty well on any type of kind of automotive or cooking oil in an emergency. Probably many of the lotions and creams too.

And while DI does leave the receiver internals dirtier, it takes thousands of rounds in a well lubed AR to matter and no dingbat is surviving that long without cleaning his/her weapon in a hostile environment.

[26 Inf]

From reading The Black Rifle and The Great Rifle Controversy I would say that the changes from ball powder, which reduced fouling and slowed the cyclic rate, as well as chroming the chamber and bore pretty much put the AR on equal footing with the AK.

[markm]

We should fight another war in Nam to see how it would work with KMRs and such!

[Doc Safari]

Frankly, instead of an AK vs. AR thread I'd love to see an Aimpoint vs. ACOG thread where the users relate their authentic battlefield or law enforcement experiences.

[MattC]

With good lube they'd be just fine.