RMR presentation speed is faster than with iron sights v. The internet is wrong

[Eurodriver]

Having never timed myself I had assumed (because I read the internet, see links below as examples) that an RMR equipped handgun would be slower presenting and getting accurate aimed fire on target than iron sights.

Wrong.

I shot 100 rounds with a G19 Gen5 with OEM sights and 100 rounds with a G19 Gen4 with OEM sights from a timer for both splits and draw times. The target was an NRA B-29, and the objective was to keep them in the 9 ring. With irons my best draw time was 1.01, once, and my "comfort zone" seemed to settle in around ~1.15.

I then immediately switched to a G19 Gen4 with an RM06 using the same ammo at the same target at the same distance without any practice whatsoever. I have never shot an RMR equipped handgun for time and just shot 200 rounds with iron sights. I felt like this would be perfect for seeing what its like with "no practice". With the RMR, my best draw time was .99, with several <1.04...with even better accuracy than open sights. I didn't get pictures of the iron sight targets, but you'll have to take my word for it*

I theorize that if you actually use the sights when you shoot with irons, then when you present your pistol to the target the dot ends up being right above them anyway and having the red dot on the target eliminates the need for sight alignment and - boom. Shot on target. If this is incorrect, someone please chime in with your thoughts.

In this video you will see me shoot a 0.99 sec presentation shot at 12 feet with an RMR equipped Glock, with several 1.00, 1.03s, following. You'll just have to believe that they were in the 9 ring. This begins around 3:55.


(Some of you are probably wondering, did Euro just discover the GoPro? Negative. I record myself pretty often shooting to figure out what to improve. I just decided to start sharing...I don't make videos for entertainment so if they suck that's too bad. *I have the full ~39 minute video if anyone doubts the above or has an abundance of freetime and wants to hear me run my mouth. I threw this video together quickly, but the splits were also faster with the RMR.)






https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/in.../t-125769.html
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/in.../t-101058.html
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/in...p/t-96082.html

[jpmuscle]

Euro's one man initiated resurrection of M4c continues.

Good stuff

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[T2C]

I have been shooting handguns since the 1960's. I've fired hundreds of rounds through handguns with iron sights and red dot sights on a timer on the same day for comparison. My times with first shot on target are 40% faster with iron sights out to 25 meters.

If you cut your teeth on electronic sights, a RDS may be the way to go. If you have extensive experience with iron sights, and your eyes haven't completely failed you, a RDS may be a hindrance.

[Eurodriver]

I have been shooting handguns since the 1960's. I've fired hundreds of rounds through handguns with iron sights and red dot sights on a timer on the same day for comparison. My times with first shot on target are 40% faster with iron sights out to 25 meters.

I knew I forgot to do something. I should have varied the range. I guess I will have to go back out there tomorrow

I’ve also noticed I have a strong tendency to immediately retract the pistol when firing one round for speed. I need to cut that shit out.

[nightchief]

Euro's one man initiated resurrection of M4c continues.

Good stuff

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We need a sub forum called "shooting the gun", then a rifle and pistol sub category.

Great stuff...

[young_gun]

I put an RM06 on my Gen 4 19 just the other day and I was amazed at how much easier it is to shoot accurately and quickly. You said the other day that an RMR on a stock Glock is like cheating and I'll be damned if I didn't think the exact same thing.

Glad to see it confirmed with real times.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Eurodriver, making m4c great again one highly pragmatic post at a time. Thank you for your service sir.


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[Defaultmp3]

I have been shooting handguns since the 1960's. I've fired hundreds of rounds through handguns with iron sights and red dot sights on a timer on the same day for comparison. My times with first shot on target are 40% faster with iron sights out to 25 meters.

If you cut your teeth on electronic sights, a RDS may be the way to go. If you have extensive experience with iron sights, and your eyes haven't completely failed you, a RDS may be a hindrance.

Yeah, I tend to be of the opinion that the RDS'd handgun can be slower for very advanced shooters and for very inexperienced shooters; the former because the RDS gives less of an index until you're near full presentation and the latter because the window is so small. For the vast majority of serious shooters, I suspect that the RDS will generally be faster, often noticeably so.

[Firefly]

Should the stars align, I have a 5904 with Adj sights I'd like to run against you.

I see the merit of the RMR and am on board but T2C brings up a cogent point about irons.

There are yet still some Sith out there....

But on average, yes. RMR is fast.

[MegademiC]

So I'm guessing your gen5 will be going to Doug?
My gen4 is going next month. I'm looking forward to doing a comparison-haven't shot an rmr pistol yet.