Why Ford Sucks (advice needed, venting..)

[Coal Dragger]

Uhhh..... dude the 6.0 was around (and performing poorly) well before Obama was in office.

[NYH1]

We used ford trucks for our fleet from 1976 to 2010 until we switched over to the Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD in 2011 after our Fords had to be serviced almost every month. The new LTZ Chevys are nice for pulling 14-20k pound goosenecks and come pretty well equipped for work trucks, navigation, sat radio, leather, dual climate, and lots of places to plug in regular electronics like laptop, phone, CB etc. The Chevys cost more to maintain than the Fords we had but we run these trucks to about 350k miles. The 6.0L was to meet Obamas tough new emission standards- that engine sucked!!!!

So in 2003 when Ford released the 6.0L Power Choke to replace the 7.3L Power Stroke, it was because of then Illinois State Senator Barack Obama's tough new emission standards? Interesting. At least we agree that engine sucked.

NYH1.

[NYH1]

Uhhh..... dude the 6.0 was around (and performing poorly) well before Obama was in office.

Diesel guys know this and I'm really not one. Power Strokes 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 and now 6.7 in that order.

NYH1.

[eightmillimeter]

I know some cars do keep data on the car as it were since I had a friend take a car to a dealer and get asked why he had it up to 138MPH.

The newer they are the more they store. If you "try" to break it by redlining it when it's slipping between gears it will probably record it and then they will just say you broke it on purpose.

If you ever want to see a tech spit chew all over a laptop we had a 16 Dodge Charger that died during a pursuit, had to stop, shut it off, and restart it to get going again. Check engine light wouldn't go away so we took it in. Tech about shit himself when the code said something along the lines of "accelerator pedal position sensor at 100% for too long of duration"

[Coal Dragger]

Diesel guys know this and I'm really not one. Power Strokes 7.3, 6.0, 6.4 and now 6.7 in that order.

NYH1.

The 7.3 was a good motor but once GM developed the Duramax with Isuzu and released it, Ford ended up needing to scramble to compete. Dodge did too at least to an extent, but the 5.9L Cummins had the potential to make a lot more power with upgraded fuel management, and other tweaks. The old International 7.3L Ford used wasn't so easy to bring to Duramax power levels and still maintain durability. So Ford and International/Navistar gave their buyers the 6.0L Powerstroke, I think an argument could be made that it was a poor stopgap until Ford could develop a competitive Diesel engine.

The 6.4L at least was known to be pretty reliable, but too thirsty and down on power compared to the Duramax and Cummins in actual use.

The new 6.7L seems pretty well regarded by friends who have them.

All that said, the Duramax and Allison transmission combo in the 3/4 and 1 ton market changed the segment radically. In 2001 the Duramax at 300hp and 520lb-ft with a 5 speed automatic transmission as durable as the Allison were mind blowing for a pickup. Keep in mind the 7.3L Powerstroke in 2001 made only 250hp, and the 5.9L Cummins that model year made 245hp. To this day GM's latest versions of this pairing still seem to handily out perform the Ford and Ram offerings in real world performance.

[elephant]

Uhhh..... dude the 6.0 was around (and performing poorly) well before Obama was in office.

2003-2016 but I'm talking about the VT365 2nd generation. They quit putting them in trucks in 2007 and only used in vans till 2010- ironically it was listed as Wards 10 Best engines in 2003. The Maxxforce 7 6.4L sequential turbo that came after the 6.0L was just a little better and made almost 650lbs of torque. But that engine drank fuel faster than jet engines. I don't know why but Isuzu and Daewoo build the best diesel truck engines in the world. Daewoo manufactures engines for Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, Volkswagen; Isuzu makes engines for Caterpillar, MAN, FMC, GM, Freightliner, General Electric and TUG- of coarse these are all commercial grade engines not consumer.

[JC5188]

Whatever you do don't ruin your credit. That will cost you more in the long run.

I would pay it off and trade it in. Get out of it ASAP and be done. Writing letters will probably get you nowhere.

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This^^^

Don’t stop paying and tell them to f-off.

Ask me how I know.

[WillBrink]

I'm going to get into the brand debate. I can offer great examples of pretty much all of them, and really horrible of everyone of them as well, both foreign and domestic.

What I will offer is some advice as far as getting into proving your issue. Which I know you don't want to hear, but listen. Coming from someone who spends day in and day out now dealing with various claims, the issue is if you have a third party like myself is that you have to be able to establish some sort of credibility. And I know that just pissed you off Will, but listen, if you are saying the vehicle is doing X, and the dealer is going, it is not and we did tests Q, Y, and Z, and showed no issues, then you need to be able to give me something to refute it.

Per the OP, on the third visit the tech witnessed it with his own two eyes right in front of me while sitting in the passenger seat, and confirmed it on paper. Don't think one can get much more credibility then that in this situation.

I know you said you have tried to capture it on camera, but, if you don't have anything, any investigator is going to go, "Well the dealer showed they looked for issues and none were found." The law is kind of written in that regard, generally speaking and all things being equal. Even if I think the dealer is being shady, unless I have proof I can't do shit, and trust me there have been many a time I have had more than just a guy feeling, but due to lack of evidence my hands are tied. I'd assume the same from the company since I can only assume that they deal with a lot of people making fraudulent claims, I know I do, so they probably are assuming the worst if you have no proof. End point, get proof somehow. Perhaps this is a point that maybe cars, or at least more cars, need some sort of black box to keep record of issues. I know some cars do keep data on the car as it were since I had a friend take a car to a dealer and get asked why he had it up to 138MPH.

I don't think the dealership is being shady at all. I think they have done their best to locate this problem with the vehicle, but have been unable to reproduce it in the shop. Per OP, I'm even willing to bring it in a 4th time, if Ford will at least tell me me what happens if it's not fixed after visit #4. My interest in capturing it on vid is to put it on social media to show what a POS is this vehicle and add pressure, and perhaps show to an attorney, etc, not confirm to Ford Per se. Their own damn tech did that....

[Palmguy]

Lemon law applies to having the same problem fixed several times with no results. You can have 45 different problems and it won't qualify for lemon law. However each state is slightly different. For instance....Pa lemon law covers only 1 year, 12k miles or the term of expressed warranty, whichever comes first

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Florida has a provision for multiple problems resulting in a certain number of cumulative days in repair.

[TommyG]

Will, get your lease agreement out and read the fine print. There may be a buyback option in there. If so call them and tell them and ask them what the terms would be to exercise that option. The residual value and terms may not be super attractive but it might get you out of a bad vehicle with a lot less harm to you than just not paying the lease.