Germany's GSG9 Counterterrorism Unit

[Slater]

A lot has been discussed over the years about Eagle Claw. The helicopter force, in particular, has been given a lot of blame. The RH-53D's were flown by Navy pilots (because it was their aircraft and they were most familiar with the RH-53D) and co-piloted by Marines (the theory was that they had more experience operating over land). USAF HH-53 pilots were available who had Vietnam experience and had flown long range, low altitude missions during the war. They might have been the best choice, but gathering them together from all over the USAF for the mission was seen as an unacceptable security risk.

Col. Beckwith did not have a high opinion of them afterwards, referring to the helo crews as "cowards", but then he was a pretty hard-driving individual.

[chuckman]

A lot has been discussed over the years about Eagle Claw. The helicopter force, in particular, has been given a lot of blame. The RH-53D's were flown by Navy pilots (because it was their aircraft and they were most familiar with the RH-53D) and co-piloted by Marines (the theory was that they had more experience operating over land). USAF HH-53 pilots were available who had Vietnam experience and had flown long range, low altitude missions during the war. They might have been the best choice, but gathering them together from all over the USAF for the mission was seen as an unacceptable security risk.

Col. Beckwith did not have a high opinion of them afterwards, referring to the helo crews as "cowards", but then he was a pretty hard-driving individual.

Beckwith apologized later, admitting he was caught up in the moment. Our tactics were sound; the fact that four service branches were singing off separate sheets of music was not. USSOCOM didn't do too much to change/improve specific tactics, but the fact everyone was on the same page was an evolutionary leap of significant proportions in terms of creating "jointness" and uniformity.

[Slater]

It's interesting to speculate all these years later. If enough helicopters had remained serviceable at Desert One (and no collision had happened, obviously), would the mission had succeeded if it had gone forward? Despite having a lot of moving parts, Beckwith and many others thought it had a better than even chance. The rescue personnel certainly had the training and motivation to make it succeed.

[chuckman]

It's interesting to speculate all these years later. If enough helicopters had remained serviceable at Desert One (and no collision had happened, obviously), would the mission had succeeded if it had gone forward? Despite having a lot of moving parts, Beckwith and many others thought it had a better than even chance. The rescue personnel certainly had the training and motivation to make it succeed.

I read The Guts to Try: The Untold Story of the Iran Hostage Rescue Mission by the On-Scene Desert Commander. The author believed the same thing, that had everything gone as planned it had a good chance of being successful. If I recall he also said that because there were so many moving parts, of one thing broke down it could cause a domino effect and it wouldn't take much to impact the mission.

Edited to add, I was a young buck when it happened (12), but it impacted me very much, and because of it, Grenada and Beirut three years later, I joined the military.

[Slater]

I read that also. Great book (by Col. Jim Kyle, IIRC?).

[yoni]

But when hijacking's became [I]de Of Iran/Eagle Claw really exposed our weaknesses.

Failures always show where you are weak and many times bring about a fresh approach. Ma'alot was Israel's failure and brought about the creation of a dedicated hostage rescue unit.

[sundance435]

It's interesting to speculate all these years later. If enough helicopters had remained serviceable at Desert One (and no collision had happened, obviously), would the mission had succeeded if it had gone forward? Despite having a lot of moving parts, Beckwith and many others thought it had a better than even chance. The rescue personnel certainly had the training and motivation to make it succeed.

Seems a little incongruous to state that it had a better than even chance whilst still having a lot of moving parts.

Better than even chance Ronald Reagan doesn't get elected in '80 if the raid had gone off successfully.

[chuckman]

Seems a little incongruous to state that it had a better than even chance whilst still having a lot of moving parts.

Better than even chance Ronald Reagan doesn't get elected in '80 if the raid had gone off successfully.

Iran was relatively small potatoes for most people. In 1980, it was mostly a referendum about the economy. I am certain that had the raid succeeded, his margin of victory may have been much smaller.

They had rehearsed the op several times, and got it down pretty pat. Of course, what might have happened or could have happened in Iran and on the way out will always be speculation. But based on rehearsals it's fair to say that getting to the embassy had a high probability of success.

[Eurodriver]

Why does this stuff interest folks?

[Firefly]

Why does this stuff interest folks?

A cheeky part of me wants to say "cosplay/LARP ideas" but to me its like guys memorizing college football stats or Star Trek people.

I'm glad these people do what they do, but I'm not these people and it don't concern me unless I get held hostage in Berlin. But I wouldnt be a good hostage because I would show my natural ass