Glock G19: The Once and Future King?

[Outlander Systems]

WWACD

Thanks for the course correction.

Everyone, take a few minutes to re-read the posting guidelines here:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...sion-Statement

And AC's wisdom here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...4C-Style-Guide

Remember that there are different ways to contribute to this forum; it's not just limited to sharing knowledge and experience. I'm not expecting folks to sing Kumbaya around a virtual campfire, but just treat their fellow members here with respect/deference. Any more posts that add fuel to the fire will get this thread locked - another one that had good potential that goes down in flames.

[jpmuscle]

I miss AC.....


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[Big A]

Hello,

My name is Big A and I'm a Glock 19 fanboy.

I bought my first gun, a used Glock 23, in 2004. It wasn't my first time shooting a Glock as I had done so as a teenager along with other hand guns so I had a base of knowledge for what I liked and I new a Glock would serve me well. Then a little while later I bought my ODG Glock 19. This gun was brand new so I consider it my true first gun. I'll never sell it and likely will be buried with it. I have several other firearms because I enjoy them and guns as mechanical devices interest me greatly. And they are also money in the bank because I can sell them off if I need some funds for other things. However My G19 and AR will be with me forever.

I've learned a few things during my time on this here rock. One of those is that I am not the end all be all authority on firearms, their design or their usage. Another thing I learned is not everyone is gonna like what you like, and that's ok. You're not them so why should they be made to conform to your idea of what is best for them? When people ask me what they should get I usually ask them what they want the gun for. Then I tell them to go to an LGS that rents guns and try out as many as they can to see what they like. But I always recommend they check out a G19.

But really the thing about the Glock is the aftermarket. They are the Jeep Wrangler of the gun world. The aftermarket is too big to ignore, believe me I've tried. When Glock had their super secret big announcement that everybody thought was gonna be the G43 but turned out to be the G40 & 41 I was miffed and bought an S&W Shield outta spite. Then I held off buying a G43 up until a couple of months ago....because the aftermarket is too big to ignore (also I've got this single stack 9 fetish lately that I am trying to satisfy. Gotta catch 'em all!) But of all the hand guns on the market today, the only ones I know of that you can buy all the parts and build one from scratch are the 1911 and the Glock. Hell you can even build a Glock now whithout having to fill out one of those permission slips from the ATF and using only 3 factory parts.

That is why it is the Once and Future King and will never be dethroned.

[militarymoron]

All non-technical posts after this one will be deleted/cleaned up without notice/warning, so don't waste any more time beating a dead horse. If you want to continue to settle non-technical differences with anyone, please do so via PM. Thanks.

[ramairthree]

Surprise.
Handguns are a very personal choice that many are significantly emotionally invested in.

I was in awe of the G19 in the early 90s when I first used one.
It packed the capability of a full sized service pistol such as the M9 in a light, smaller, more efficient package. I have about half a dozen 9mm Glocks since buying my first one around 25 years ago. But it is a cost, size, functionally efficient package.

But it is not my favorite.

There are advantages to other platforms, and cons as well.

It’s like the threads where people argue over a Mustang GT, Camaro SS, and Challenger RT.
Cost, weight, commonality, aftermarket, etc. make the Mustang GT the way to go.
But I choose the Challenger. It is heavier, more expensive, not quite as fast, does not brake or handle quite as well.
But it rides better, is only a touch slower, has a more low end torque vs higher revving power curve,
And while I like the GT,
At the end of the day,
I am going to driving like a madman in a hurry around town, will be hampered by the GTs higher RPM power curve,
Need to seat five, and need room in the trunk for two dead bodies and a duffel bag of cash.
The Challenger is the only one of the three that works for me.

I have owned all three. Two of the models concurrently. Still have one.

Someone else may choose the Camaro for its advantages vs the other two.

It’s like arguing a trail rated Jeed Grand Cherokee vs a Wrangler vs a 4Runner, etc.

Being king of the hill for Glock is as much about costs and marketing practices as it is about the pistols themselves.

Which is fine.

I can find a larger gun with advantages in some factors.
I can find a smaller gun with advantages in other factors.

A single stack 1911 offers a trigger, accuracy advantage.
Giving up capacity.
A double stack 1911 overcomes the capacity issue.
But costs, maintenance, keeping it running reliably offer cons.

A DA SA gun can offer some advantages.
You will see this in production, if you are awesomely fast and accurate. Myself, and many others will not be hampered by a Glocks limitation. A friend using a DAO gun in production, proud of how well he shoots, finally shot with me when I was back where I grew up. I did not understand how he could do so well. I find the DAO reset of say, a 92D to be very limiting in my performance vs a 92 FS or G. The reality was he was shooting with a bunch of duds and not that good.

A handful of other striker fired guns offer a better trigger in stock form. You can upgrade your flock trigger.
Or they have expensive magazines. Or a funny mag release location. Or some tactical considerations.

The list of pros and cons are endless.
There may be a great canink gun on par with the best of the striker fired guns at a great cost. Good luck finding good holsters or accessories.

You may roll with an APX because it looks really cool.

Some other options like rotat8ng barrels, polymer framed hammer fired, etc are out there.

A reliable, accurate platform can be found in many forms.

But,
The fact remains the G19 is a standard most will be judged Against.

[PrivateCitizen]

Renewal of Intent:

At the outset I had placed several contenders and was was curious as to why they failed.

How have so many come and gone and there have been no serious challengers? Everyone has cited "logistics" and I think that is a large part of it … but there has to be more. How many millions on other platforms were spent only to see them vanish into obscurity?

There have been massive threads on pistols right here on M4C … M&P, P30/VP9, CZ P07 … a few others. Dudes all over this forum bought, shot, ran, "it's the best I've ever tasted" … and then sold, dropped, left … and where are those pistols now? Experts/Vendors/SMEs/Industry Pros did the same thing. It is something of a novelty to see any of these 'replacements' on the line … we notice when we do.

Full circle … so were they only 'as good' and thus not enough? What did you try and why didn't it stick?

For me, it was the M&P9 1.0 … but then the trigger, the accuracy … I grew bothered by the size … and I left. I am not sure any of the negative press/rep ever really impacted me in a meaningful way, I just started to lose faith in it. It was something the G19 owners never seemed to have (to any real degree). Glock quibbles were limited to texture, finger grooves, and the occasion BTF … but the G19 just went bang every time and hordes just trusted it … and through experience, not hype.

This thread was intended to be more of a "why others failed" and less of a "why the G19 is best"?

[1168]

But,
The fact remains the G19 is a standard most will be judged Against.

Absolutely. Even though I currently own no Glocks, I still compare all pistols to the G19. It is the gold standard, even if I don’t really like it. A baseline. It is still the pistol I recommend most frequently, especially to people that have no clue what they want, or why.

Renewal of Intent:



This thread was intended to be more of a "why others failed" and less of a "why the G19 is best"?

This a much more productive area of discussion than declaring the G19 “king” imo. I would say the others have failed or fallen behind due to pricing, marketing, timing, unreliability, or simply not being better than a market leader like Glock.

Glock started marketing hard at a time when many cops were still switching from revolvers. They took that market over, and proved to be reliable. They advertised toward competition shooters, and have the GSSF. They organize “Glock Days” with gun stores. They flooded the market with cheap, lightweight and reliable guns, in a time that many people were just getting used to the idea that an autoloader could be trusted. Plus more capacity than the competition back in the day (1911, M11 and M9/92 come to mind). They also jumped on the .40 and .357sig bandwagons when those cartridges were being adopted by a lot of folks.

Anybody trying to score some of their market share is at a visitor field disadvantage. They have to be better, cheaper, or both, and they have to out-market the leader. The 1st quoted post is evidence of this.

[26 Inf]

Glock started marketing hard at a time when many cops were still switching from revolvers. They took that market over, and proved to be reliable. They advertised toward competition shooters, and have the GSSF. They organize “Glock Days” with gun stores. They flooded the market with cheap, lightweight and reliable guns, in a time that many people were just getting used to the idea that an autoloader could be trusted. Plus more capacity than the competition back in the day (1911, M11 and M9/92 come to mind). They also jumped on the .40 and .357sig bandwagons when those cartridges were being adopted by a lot of folks.

Anybody trying to score some of their market share is at a visitor field disadvantage. They have to be better, cheaper, or both, and they have to out-market the leader. The 1st quoted post is evidence of this.

I think you stated this better than I did in an earlier post (#66 on my 'puter)

I would also add that for years Glock has been a friend to LE budget guys. At one time they routinely upgraded agencies to new models, or simply newer versions of the same model for the old weapon in trade and a pittance of cash. I know of agencies who merely wanted to replace night sights and ended up with new pistols.

Additionally, they offer blue label pricing to LE reserves, firemen, EMT's, active duty military, reserve and guard soldiers, and retired military. That is a good hunk of folks they have built, or are building goodwill with.

As I said in an earlier post, up to the recent past, everyone else has been playing catch up. There are now several mfgrs that are pushing Glock to up it's game. We shall see.

[Evel Baldgui]

A simple point regarding the G19 or any 9mm Glock is the proverbial "happy stick"....No other manufacturer, to my knowledge, offers a 33rd mag that will fit 4 different variants of a pistol from G26 thru G34, which, to many, is quite an important consideration!

[militarymoron]

This thread was intended to be more of a "why others failed" and less of a "why the G19 is best"?

I actually interpreted it to mean 'why is the G19 the most popular choice' vs. 'why is the G19 the best?' I think 'best' will be argued until the cows come home since everyone has their opinion and personal preferences. 'Most popular' is less subjective as you can base on sales numbers, and other data.

I think someone mentioned earlier that you can now build a G19 almost completely from non-Glock parts. Relatively few modern pistols have that distinction. The Glock 19 isn't quite where the 1911 is today, specifically when it comes to numerous manufacturers making variants of the same design, but the 1911 has had quite the head start. There might be a time in the future when it's just referred to as a G19, instead of 'Glock 19', and recognized as a clone/variant based on an original design, but has grown beyond the original manufacturer.

I have a G19 built on a polymer80 frame, and the only Glock parts are the slide and a couple of springs. If I replace those, I no longer have a Glock; but I'd still refer to it as a G19.