Does the argument against a shorter, lighter trigger really hold up?

[Doc Safari]

Most importantly I want to put my finger on the trigger when I’m “on target” and break the shot when I’m in the bull. A heavier trigger allows me to feel the trigger and time the break as the sights settle on the bull.

I’ve had issues with light triggers where I pulled shots prematurely under stress. I won’t go back. Call it a crutch, it is what it is. Sometimes I could feel it, sometimes not and it threw me off.

I am 100% in agreement. I looked forward to the Gen 5 Glock for months. I kept a Gen 5 Glock 17 for exactly a week and then traded it back to the gun shop for a Gen 4. The Gen 4 trigger gives one the ability to do just what you're talking about as far as fine-tuning your aim before the shot breaks. I experienced a couple of premature ignitions (entirely my fault not the pistol's) with the Gen 5 and decided I personally did not like it.

[Biggy]

I am 100% in agreement. I looked forward to the Gen 5 Glock for months. I kept a Gen 5 Glock 17 for exactly a week and then traded it back to the gun shop for a Gen 4. The Gen 4 trigger gives one the ability to do just what you're talking about as far as fine-tuning your aim before the shot breaks. I experienced a couple of premature ignitions (entirely my fault not the pistol's) with the Gen 5 and decided I personally did not like it.

Yeah for me also , the stock Gen 5 trigger is somewhat of an acquired taste, not bad, not great, but different.

[Doc Safari]

Dagga Boy, aka Darryl Bolke, is a friend. His commentary is spot on, in my opinion.

Darryl and Wayne Dobbs, who is a member and Industry Professional here, taught me about a research paper written years ago by Dr Roger Enoka. You can read the paper here:

https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/ima...0Resources.pdf

You do not need to read the entire 95 pages in the PDF, Dr Enoka's paper is the first 10 pages. Basically, he points out situations where ND's are very easy to occur.

I have my doubts that one can be trained to minimize involuntary contractions in the real world--lab experiments notwithstanding--so keeping one's finger outside the trigger guard becomes even more important. Because stress and the "fight-or-flight" response tends to override our ability to think, I am doubtful that involuntary contractions can be "educated out" of a person. Training to minimize involuntary contractions seems like a fantasy, IMHO. You can train someone to keep their finger out of the trigger guard, but I do not think you can train them not to "tense up" when things go rotten. The key term being "involuntary". Put a different way: you can't train your heart not to race under stress. It's called an "involuntary" response for a reason.

I do not believe that in a "training" scenario, you can adequately reproduce anywhere near the stress of a real-world encounter, and therefore I don't think you can make a person "unlearn" the involuntary contractions that make him unintentionally squeeze the trigger. The only thing you can do is train the person to follow proper handling techniques and keep the finger off the trigger until ready to fire. That way when the involuntary contractions occur, there isn't an ND.

[26 Inf]

So, what does 'finger off the trigger' or 'finger outside the trigger guard' mean to the members of the forum?

[southswede]

So, what does 'finger off the trigger' or 'finger outside the trigger guard' mean to the members of the forum?

Based on what I've read in this thread and threads involving a certain holster, not much. It seems to be more of a theory to some, rather than an actual practice.

[Wake27]

Finger off of the trigger is related, but not really the focus of my question. The argument of heavy gloves is about the only decent one I have seen. The observation by LEOs of a suspect’s compliance changing during the trigger pull is interesting for sure, but I’m inclined to think it is more of a coincidence. I haven’t witnessed it so of course I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that a suspect, many of whom are probably unstable, under the influence, or just hyped on adrenaline are able to notice such a small movement of the officer going from off the trigger to prepping that shot. On the other hand, I don’t think many out there disagree with the statement that a lighter, shorter pull is conducive to more accurate shots by most shooters.


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[Warp]

Finger off of the trigger is related, but not really the focus of my question. The argument of heavy gloves is about the only decent one I have seen. The observation by LEOs of a suspect’s compliance changing during the trigger pull is interesting for sure, but I’m inclined to think it is more of a coincidence. I haven’t witnessed it so of course I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that a suspect, many of whom are probably unstable, under the influence, or just hyped on adrenaline are able to notice such a small movement of the officer going from off the trigger to prepping that shot. On the other hand, I don’t think many out there disagree with the statement that a lighter, shorter pull is conducive to more accurate shots by most shooters.

I don't think it necessarily requires the perp noticing the officer's finger going into the trigger guard to prep the shot, it could simply be that the officer just drew, or just raised the gun at the suspect, which is what the suspect/perp reacted to, and it just so happens that the officer was also pressing the trigger as the gun was being drawn/brought onto target. Thinking out loud

[YVK]

For me I like Glock type triggers with a lighter connector in them to make the pull weight around 4.5 pounds.
Pat

On my striker pistols I prefer a trigger break around 4.5 lbs to 5.0 lbs

For this type of discussion, the inherent safety of light triggers, how do you measure a trigger break weight?

[Biggy]

For this type of discussion, the inherent safety of light triggers, how do you measure a trigger break weight?

I measure the trigger weight by what I feel comfortable enough with from the feedback from my trigger finger *first* and foremost. Can I control the trigger when running the gun hard. If checking with a break guage, it will usually reads between 4.5-5.0 lbs. I used to own a PPQ, it had a great trigger but it just *felt* too light for my liking when the adrenaline is pumping.

[ghostly]

I have personally seen guys discharge their firearm on reset when put under pressure. Typically, these were guys that wanted super-light triggers but had little to no training.

Meanwhile, in competition, I've never seen open-class guys with 1-2 lb. triggers have NDs with the stress of competition. Take it for what it's worth.

I do not see much advantage to sub-4 lb triggers on a defensive gun.


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