Travelling Cross Country With An SBR

[WillBrink]

Yes, I have a specific reason for taking my SBR and I've looked up the laws in all the states I'll be passing through and the states of alternate routes and I'm good to go.

So, what do I do about states I'm just passing through or might spend the night but not certain where? Do I just use the random address of a hotel or range or something?

Is there a reason you can't just ship it to the end location? Regardless, just be aware no matter what the law says, there some NE states will ignore them at the local level and depending on the LEO you get etc, to the point your trip is toast and it will be through great time wasted and $ you'd ever see that SBR again. If what I'm saying makes you paranoid and avoid those states at all costs, good!

Which is why you insure your vehicle is current on tags, inspections, etc., all safety equipment is working, obey all traffic laws and if stopped, POLITELY refuse to answer questions and ALWAYS refuse permission to search. Remember that police can legally lie to you, but lying to them is a crime. It sucks you have to be like that, but you do.

I'd like to get more intel on that one as I have gotten conflicting info. You refuse the search, then what? They say "have a nice day and be on your way"? Or, they impound the car and and attempt to get a warrant if they can show probable cause? Other?

Example: You're 500 miles from your home state, your car is full of your stuff, you were pulled over for something you were not aware of (say headlight or breaklight decided to die on you en route for example), and they ask for permission to search? Do they need more evidence than the broken light to search and by saying no, they'll cut you lose? Now what? If they wanna be real hard asses for what ever reason, what are their options?

Two, refuse to answer what Qs? All and any? Anything past name? Feel free to go PM if you prefer not to explain it in this thread.

[glocktogo]

Is there a reason you can't just ship it to the end location? Regardless, just be aware no matter what the law says, there some NE states will ignore them at the local level and depending on the LEO you get etc, to the point your trip is toast and it will be through great time wasted and $ you'd ever see that SBR again. If what I'm saying makes you paranoid and avoid those states at all costs, good!



I'd like to get more intel on that one as I have gotten conflicting info. You refuse the search, then what? They say "have a nice day and be on your way"? Or, they impound the car and and attempt to get a warrant if they can show probable cause? Other?

Example: You're 500 miles from your home state, your car is full of your stuff, you were pulled over for something you were not aware of (say headlight or breaklight decided to die on you en route for example), and they ask for permission to search? Do they need more evidence than the broken light to search and by saying no, they'll cut you lose? Now what? If they wanna be real hard asses for what ever reason, what are their options?

Two, refuse to answer what Qs? All and any? Anything past name? Feel free to go PM if you prefer not to explain it in this thread.

Yes, they need more than defective equipment or a traffic violation to have probable cause for a search. If you refuse and they have probable cause, they'll search anyway. If not, but they have reasonable articulable suspicion, they can detain you and wait for a dog, or call in a request for a warrant. Regardless, your refusal is irrelevant. If they have neither PC nor RAS, every word you say after the refusal will be elicited by the officer in an attempt to develop PC or RAS. If you don't give it to them, you'll leave the scene with a citation and officer friendly will leave with a case of the redass. But you don't get your stuff seized and wind up in jail, so that's a win for you.

Even if they do search and arrest you, your statements and consent may make it impossible for your attorney to get the charges kicked on a technicality. Say nothing and refuse consent, and you give their side less ammo to use against you. Seriously, I've seen so many people talk themselves into an arrest and cconvictionnviction, but never seen someone remain silent and avoid one. It's like they don't understand the legal system at all.

As for the questions, you must provide ID and other information relevant to the stop, but nothing beyond that. Even answering the ubiquitous "Where are you headed?", may be used to establish suspicion or cause. You don't have to even acknowledge the question if you don't want to.

[WillBrink]

Yes, they need more than defective equipment or a traffic violation to have probable cause for a search. If you refuse and they have probable cause, they'll search anyway. If not, but they have reasonable articulable suspicion, they can detain you and wait for a dog, or call in a request for a warrant. Regardless, your refusal is irrelevant. If they have neither PC nor RAS, every word you say after the refusal will be elicited by the officer in an attempt to develop PC or RAS. If you don't give it to them, you'll leave the scene with a citation and officer friendly will leave with a case of the redass. But you don't get your stuff seized and wind up in jail, so that's a win for you.

Even if they do search and arrest you, your statements and consent may make it impossible for your attorney to get the charges kicked on a technicality. Say nothing and refuse consent, and you give their side less ammo to use against you. Seriously, I've seen so many people talk themselves into an arrest and cconvictionnviction, but never seen someone remain silent and avoid one. It's like they don't understand the legal system at all.

As for the questions, you must provide ID and other information relevant to the stop, but nothing beyond that. Even answering the ubiquitous "Where are you headed?", may be used to establish suspicion or cause. You don't have to even acknowledge the question if you don't want to.

What would be PC in this example say?

[Diamondback]

In that position, I'd be tempted to split the SBR--put a 16" upper on the rifle lower and the SBR upper on a pistol lower, so you have a complete pistol and rifle. File paperwork with ATF listing entire rough itinerary, but keep as two separate "non-NFA" irons and only reassemble back into an SBR once outside the "Blue Zone," then reverse for transiting such areas again.

Then again, I am neither a lawyer nor an NFA owner... and if Washington State pulls some of the crap I expect as soon as next Legislative session starts, I "may not officially be an AR owner at all" *win wink nod nod* much longer.

[glocktogo]

What would be PC in this example say?

That is a complex question. In hostile territory, it could be ruled in court to be a lower bar than in more gun friendly states. For starters, I wouldn't have any shooting stickers, gear, cases, ammunition or tactical bags visible. No logo'd apparel, worn, etc. It's just inviting questions that you don't want to answer. Keep in mind that some states tie carry permit information to DL's. The officer may know you have a gun permit before Ahe ever approaces you and will key in on that. Some states require you to inform the officer if you're carrying, but transporting and carrying under a permit are different, which would negate your requirement to inform.

I could go on all day about ways to identify, deflect or diffuse a hostile line of questioning, but I have the day off and there are fish to be caught.