vltor a5 system or jp silent captured spring?

[GeneralPurpose]

What exactly is an A5 Zealot? Is it different than a Carbine Zealot?

The people who act like, since the inception of the A5, all carbine receiver extension equipped guns are garbage that can't possibly function correctly. Carbine RE guns have been around for over 50 years and they've been working just fine. For an example of this, one could look at the guns adopted by the U.S. military and count how many have carbine REs and how many have A5 REs. The A5 is an improvement, but it doesn't invalidate 50 years of history.

[Todd.K]

The reality is AR carbines have not been reliable for that long.

M4 feedramps, heavy buffers, magazine followers, stronger extractor springs or O-ring, middy gas, magazines, longer cam pin track carrier, A5 system... all to fix problems seen in carbines but not rifles.

[tom12.7]

Todd, you'll be named a zealot just for preferring reliability and durability.

[GeneralPurpose]

Todd, you'll be named a zealot just for preferring reliability and durability.

Preferring reliability makes sense. Saying that carbine REs/buffers "do not have the time to function properly" is asinine. M4s don't function properly? You should call up the military and alert them of your expert insight.

Were you running around ~8 years ago (before the A5 even existed) telling everyone that their carbines don't work and they have to use rifle REs?

If you stick to facts, you would sound more credible. As it is, it just sounds like the adage "no one more zealous than a convert." Everyone understands the A5 is an improvement. But saying that carbines don't work lends you zero credibility.

[1168]

The reality is AR carbines have not been reliable for that long.

M4 feedramps, heavy buffers, magazine followers, stronger extractor springs or O-ring, middy gas, magazines, longer cam pin track carrier, A5 system... all to fix problems seen in carbines but not rifles.

I’m not calling anyone a zealot or anything else, but the M4A1 with its 14.5 in barrel functions just fine, gray mags and all. No special middy gas system, mag followers, carrier, or A5 RE required.

Don’t get me wrong; I like guns with some of these changes, but they aren’t strictly necessary for function.

[opngrnd]

Preferring reliability makes sense. Saying that carbine REs/buffers "do not have the time to function properly" is asinine. M4s don't function properly? You should call up the military and alert them of your expert insight.

Were you running around ~8 years ago (before the A5 even existed) telling everyone that their carbines don't work and they have to use rifle REs?

If you stick to facts, you would sound more credible. As it is, it just sounds like the adage "no one more zealous than a convert." Everyone understands the A5 is an improvement. But saying that carbines don't work lends you zero credibility.

", issues come up where the timing of a standard carbine action, JP, 42 do not have the time available to function properly."

^No one said they don't work, period. You are making a mountain out of a molehill that doesn't exist. There are situations where they don't work well with the carbine RE but would work with the A5. If he did call them up, they'd agree: the M4 series of weapons would benefit from a wider window of operation, especially when run full auto and/or suppressed. Hence the upgrades to the M4A1 from the M4, etc. It's an evolving family of weapons because "good enough", isn't always good enough. The M4 was designed and set up around a specific family of ammo. There are many upgrades out there put in place to deal with shortcomings in the system that are addressed with the A5, E-carrier, etc.

Yes, the M4A1 works with the carbine RE. Just not as well as it could, or should. The changes may not be required for function, but the host weapon would function longer and with better MRBS with the upgrades. Most military equipment will be run until it's broken, they repaired as little as needed to be put back in service because commanders have numbers to meet. That means that systems would work longer if they were more forgiving to worn mags, etc. Don't believe me? Go to any large scale firing exercise and watch what trickles over to the gun truck for repair. Or to any marksmanship training event and watch what weapons go down and why. Sincerely, a guy who regularly watches military weapons fail.

[opngrnd]

I’m not calling anyone a zealot or anything else, but the M4A1 with its 14.5 in barrel functions just fine, gray mags and all. No special middy gas system, mag followers, carrier, or A5 RE required.

Don’t get me wrong; I like guns with some of these changes, but they aren’t strictly necessary for function.

Not looking to disagree with you. But in the spirit of answering the OP, while looking for best upgrade vs mere proper function, I concur that the A5 hold the most cards.

[bobbytucson]

Yes, I know. And I agree. But you're missing my point: If everyone was having problems with carbine RE equipped guns for the last 50 years, nobody would be using them. Everyone would using rifle RE setups.

Improvements are great. I love 'em. But if you can shoot 10,000 rounds without a failure on a suppressed 10.5" AR, including a lot of full auto, and never have a failure...it's tough to have a strong desire for improvements that, frankly, will go unnoticed. For the military, of course that incremental improvement is worth it. For everyone else, probably not going to make a tangible difference.

I'd like Geissele to make a Super 42 for the A5 so I could have both. I shoot with my stock out one position anyway.

The OP's chief complaint is spring noise. The A5 does not address this. The Super 42 does, and it's drop-in. For the OP's priorities, the Super 42 is the clear winner over the A5.

ill take it! before i opened this thread, i didnt even know about the super 42, and think ill be getting it. and dam ive noticed every thread i start, arguments back and forth. i feel like when i was a kid all over again when my mom and dad would argue because i got a boo boo on my knee and eventually my dad would bust her over the head with a frying pan sending her to the hospital with 9 stitches, resulting in me feeling bad i ever said anything.

[opngrnd]

ill take it! before i opened this thread, i didnt even know about the super 42, and think ill be getting it. and dam ive noticed every thread i start, arguments back and forth. i feel like when i was a kid all over again when my mom and dad would argue because i got a boo boo on my knee and eventually my dad would bust her over the head with a frying pan sending her to the hospital with 9 stitches, resulting in me feeling bad i ever said anything.

Sorry to hear that, bro. Empirical data is big around here, so if you look at the answers that answered your question directly, I think you'll find what you're looking for.

[bobbytucson]

no worries ! and what is empirical data? im barely out of the novice stage of a.r. intelligence lol