Is NATO a paper tiger?

[Averageman]

NATO died five minutes after the Berlin Wall fell.
European Countries wanted and still want the guaranteed protections, they just don't want to pay for it and never have.
Also consider who would be the new conscripts if there was a need for a draft? Would you arm them?
It's a bad joke at this point.

[chuckman]

NATO died five minutes after the Berlin Wall fell.
European Countries wanted and still want the guaranteed protections, they just don't want to pay for it and never have.

This was exactly what I was going to say. As long as there was a Warsaw Pact, there needed to be a NATO. It outlived its usefulness, and while the US (and European military) strategies have changed, it's framework has remained stagnant.

[sundance435]

NATO died five minutes after the Berlin Wall fell.
European Countries wanted and still want the guaranteed protections, they just don't want to pay for it and never have.
Also consider who would be the new conscripts if there was a need for a draft? Would you arm them?
It's a bad joke at this point.

I tend to agree. NATO is a big subsidy for European defense. Germany is the biggest offender - robust economy, huge positive trade deficits, yet 1% of GDP on military spending. Not wanting to appear militaristic because of WWII is just a convenient excuse. There's only one thing the Russians hate/fear as much or more than a U.S. presence on their border and that's a strong German military.

As is typically the case with Trump, his contentions with NATO are based on real problems, he just can't convey them in a meaningful way or offer real solutions. If he was serious, we'd begin drawing down our European commitments even further. Leave brigades in Poland and the Baltics, since they're the only ones (and Greece & the U.K.) taking their NATO membership seriously and withdraw everyone else (except Aviano, for obvious reasons). The more the Europeans think we're abandoning NATO, the better we'll be in the long run. I personally could not care less if they finally start an EU-only defense effort, which they've bandied about for 15+ years. I'm fine with showing the world what a withdrawn U.S. actually means for them - lets match our actions with their rhetoric. We can continue the "special relationship" and intelligence sharing partnerships, but let the rest of them pay for their own national defense.

As a combat veteran friend of mine says all the time, what's so bad about the U.S. military not being present in every corner of the planet?

[Averageman]

Maybe they can form a combat regiment of guys who left Syria to immigrate to Europe?

[5.56 Bonded SP]

I'm sure everyone is well aware of what I am about to state, and many probably disagree with me.

It all stems back to WW2 and the aftermath. We screwed up by trying so hard to help so many countries than never have, and never will help us. I believe we should cut at least 90% of our military support to other countries unless it is directly in our best interest. I think Nato is a joke, and ultimately everyone will depend on the USA to keep them safe from the boogyman, all while their governments constantly bash our way of life, and try to influence our political system.
Its a joke, I think we should just let the world burn and take care of ourselves, besides perhaps Israel, I really don't mind that we help them out due to my own personal beliefs about religion

[Doc Safari]

Don't forget that Turkey is becoming cozy with the Islamists and may have to be kicked out of NATO. That's a loose end from World War II that definitely will have to be dealt with, and soon. Turkey is on the verge of siding with NATO's enemies. What will happen if they leave the alliance? Will it turn into a "me too" free-for-all like Brexit?

[5.56 Bonded SP]

Don't forget that Turkey is becoming cozy with the Islamists and may have to be kicked out of NATO. That's a loose end from World War II that definitely will have to be dealt with, and soon. Turkey is on the verge of siding with NATO's enemies. What will happen if they leave the alliance? Will it turn into a "me too" free-for-all like Brexit?

Turkey has always been a problem. I thought this was old news so I just googled it... WOW, even all the left wing news outlets are screaming for Turkey to be outed from nato right now... lol

[chuckman]

I'm sure everyone is well aware of what I am about to state, and many probably disagree with me.

It all stems back to WW2 and the aftermath. We screwed up by trying so hard to help so many countries than never have, and never will help us. I believe we should cut at least 90% of our military support to other countries unless it is directly in our best interest. I think Nato is a joke, and ultimately everyone will depend on the USA to keep them safe from the boogyman, all while their governments constantly bash our way of life, and try to influence our political system.
Its a joke, I think we should just let the world burn and take care of ourselves, besides perhaps Israel, I really don't mind that we help them out due to my own personal beliefs about religion

Virtually every country we helped after World War II, especially Germany and Japan, was beneficial to us and remain so. And at the time the Soviet Union was gobbling up satellites in Europe and we had to do something because we thought at the time that they were after the entirety of Europe. Of course we know now that was wrong they had no such intent, but at the time that's what we thought.

I agree we need to cut military aid to other countries. 90% I think is close to right. NATO is no longer what it needs to be, time for it to evolve.

[HackerF15E]

So the air component is GTG?

What?

The question was, "could NATO really perform?"

My answer was, "Based on my experience training and serving with NATO's air component: not very likely."

How would you get that the air component is "good to go" based on what I wrote?

[26 Inf]

I believe we should cut at least 90% of our military support to other countries unless it is directly in our best interest.

Funny, that is one of the things that I have always disliked about our foreign policy - it has no scruples - we've crawled in bed with some pretty folks and causes over the years for 'benefits us.'

And at the same time we've ignored some pretty awful stuff, because it didn't benefit us.